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le god
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Posted: Mon May 14th, 2007 04:02 pm |
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Andy Walsh wrote: le god wrote: Woody wrote: le god wrote: just looked at the last 6 form table on SSN we are 3rd bottom Above us are Fulham WATFORD SHEFF UTD they both got relegated!
Only Charlton and Man City are below us. awful just awful.
i think the form is a massive problem massive we can't kid ourselves it has to change around if we are to even think about another top 10 finish.
But then had you looked at the form table on 1st January, we'd be top with Manchester United.
Form can change so quickly, next season is a new start and the end of this season will have no affect. Look at the way we ended last season and then spanked Spurs first day this season.
we ended last season with a couple of wins if i remember rightly.
Of course next season is a new season but the form still concerns me
Last 8 games last season: W:2 D: 2 L: 4
This season: W:2 D: 3 L:3
On that form I'm expecting Champions League!
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Drew
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Posted: Mon May 14th, 2007 04:13 pm |
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I can't disagree that the only Speed we had in midfield had number 6 on his back until Tal came on. I thought Tal did okay and certainly injected some much needed pace. I am not sure there is room for Faye and Campo in the midfield but I think Sammy wanted experience to keep things calm.
There were certainly times when Villa were on top but there were times that we were as well. Our passing in the first half was, to put it politely, wayward but improved in the second half. Villa, a team that plays passing football, scored their first goal by going route 1 so that just goes to show.
I have to say that I am not sure why Graham Poll's incompetence has anything to do with the result. From what I saw his incompetence was pretty evenly spread and also more than matched by the tunnel side linesman.
2-2 was a far result on the day and what else would you expect BWFC to do than make the excitement of the season last beyond the final whistle. Sorry for excitement please substitute terror.
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bwfc_lulu
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Posted: Mon May 14th, 2007 04:19 pm |
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I know it's a worrying time, because we've had the same chap in charge for 8 years so any change is bound to bring concerns. But I'm rather flabbergasted about how many people seem to have already written Sammy off.
He hasn't bought a single player or had his own way yet - we have no idea what his plans are. I, for one, will wait until August to see what changes are afoot before taking a view one way or another.
Give the guy a bloody chance for goodness sake!
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Drew
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Posted: Mon May 14th, 2007 04:34 pm |
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| I'm fully behind Sammy Lee. I am worried about the damage that BSA might create so the sooner that happens the better so Sammy can get on with things properly. We don't want uncertainty over Diouf/Anelka/Backroom Staff to drag on beyond the end of June (or May even).
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White Steel
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Posted: Mon May 14th, 2007 04:39 pm |
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| I've just had my first "okay, you did well this season but with the squad size and untested manager you'll be in a relegation battle next season" conversation. A spuds fan wouldn't you know. My reply was "I seem to remember this exact same discussion last year before we beat you in the first game of the season"
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Billy Bradshaw
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Posted: Mon May 14th, 2007 04:49 pm |
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BadlyWornBoy wrote: Billy Bradshaw wrote: BadlyWornBoy wrote:
So enlighten us!!
1. What was wrong with the line up?
2. You say we shouldn't predict next seasons results on results from 6 months ago, but you seem to be suggesting we should predict next seasons results on the results of the last 4 months (our current form)? We have a close season to come and a new manager who will have his own ideas of where he wants to go.
3. Nobody has even hinted that LSL (or BSA if he was here) would be showing false loyalty, but we need to replace whoever we lose. To quote your own phrase, realism has to play a part here.
4. What does Graham Poll have to do with this? If you're about to say another team should have won etc etc, then don't. we are 7th because that's what we deserved over the whole season. To start looking at all the permutations and what could have happened is ridiculous.
1. The midfield of Nolan, Faye, Campo and Speed had all the mobility of an arthritic snail. Anyone could have predicted they would be overrun by Villa, and sure enough they were.
2. It is quite a common concept looking at recent results to predict future ones. Newspapers tend to publish the results of a teams last 5 games, they call it a "Form guide". Picking 5 random results from a whole season could revolutionise sports reporting, you should suggest it to them.
I take your point about the close season could change a lot, with new faces and tactics. However I refer you to item 1 where SL went for the least innovative option.
3. Obviously.
4. My point was that we were 7th due to the slightest margin. If that decision didn't go our way the season would have been a massive anti climax as it would have been perceived (accurately) that we threw away our European place. But we wouldn't have deserved the place anyway in that case, which would have made us feel so much better.
Ok.....
1. Our midfield was not overrun by Villa. Were you at the game or just see the highlights or read the paper? It did its job. We are in Europe. What midfield would you have played?
2. I'm quite aware of the 'concept' of looking at recent results to predict future ones . But we are having a 3 month gap with a new manager and probably some new faces. I don't think 'recent form' will count for anything...do you? As was mentioned by someone else.....Wet Spams recent form would have made them champios if projected over the full season......but it doesn't work like that does it???
4. Slightest margin or landslide. WE QUALIFIED FOR EUROPE. It was more than many (especially on this forum) had predicted. So we've had a better season than all the doom-mongers on here were predicting, yet those same doom-mongers are still bleating.
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Woody
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Posted: Mon May 14th, 2007 05:02 pm |
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Billy Bradshaw wrote: 1. Our midfield was not overrun by Villa. Were you at the game or just see the highlights or read the paper? It did its job. We are in Europe. What midfield would you have played? I think everyone will accept that next season, we need to have a look at our midfield though. Speed is getting on and I imagine he will play less and less next season, Campo needs to have a really good pre-season fitness wise if he wants to stay in the team and Nolan hasn't had the best of seasons.
If we are to use the same formation, I think a midfield trio of Nolan, Andranik and Dzemeli (sp?) / new signing is our best bet.
4. Slightest margin or landslide. WE QUALIFIED FOR EUROPE. It was more than many (especially on this forum) had predicted. So we've had a better season than all the doom-mongers on here were predicting, yet those same doom-mongers are still bleating.
Very correct. Over 38 games we were the 7th best team in the land. After the first 19, we were the 3rd best and the last 19, we were closer to 3rd worst. However that doesn't matter, let's just hope next season we can pick up more wins at home, because it's the inability to beat the likes of City, Charlton and Blackburn at home, that has cost us having the best season ever. Last edited on Mon May 14th, 2007 05:03 pm by Woody
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Billy Bradshaw
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Posted: Mon May 14th, 2007 05:09 pm |
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| But that's football........Man U and Chelsea slipped up near the end of the season by not beating teams they should have. That's why football is so good. We don't always win the games we should and sometimes, we win the games we shouldn't.
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D1OUFY
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Posted: Mon May 14th, 2007 05:49 pm |
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I dont think our midfield was overrun... just we had nothing there when we were looking to break, but thats what you get playing 3 defensive midfielders. Plus Anelka only played 45 mins and didnt look very interested and Davies or Nolan have hardly got pace. It will be interesting to see how the midfield shapes next season. Id have Faye in the holding role ahead of Campo. I know distribution isnt as good but Campo's has hardly been his usual standard, although when he picks a pass and plays it well it will unlock the opposition defence. I think it was him who played an excellent ball through that beat everybody - cant remember who had the shot though. That said, I was very impressed by Faye - if it wasnt for Davies he would have got MotM from me. However good Speed and Campo have been/still are Id like to see another midfielder take their place next season. Ideally someone with pace. I've still got room for Nolan in the team so Campo/Speed would have to be happy with being a sub. I think Campo will go this time anyway. Whether Andranik is the man to take their place I dont know, but its not going to help his game being behind Campo and Speed.
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BadlyWornBoy
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Posted: Mon May 14th, 2007 07:15 pm |
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Billy Bradshaw wrote:
Ok.....
1. Our midfield was not overrun by Villa. Were you at the game or just see the highlights or read the paper? It did its job. We are in Europe. What midfield would you have played?
2. I'm quite aware of the 'concept' of looking at recent results to predict future ones . But we are having a 3 month gap with a new manager and probably some new faces. I don't think 'recent form' will count for anything...do you? As was mentioned by someone else.....Wet Spams recent form would have made them champios if projected over the full season......but it doesn't work like that does it???
4. Slightest margin or landslide. WE QUALIFIED FOR EUROPE. It was more than many (especially on this forum) had predicted. So we've had a better season than all the doom-mongers on here were predicting, yet those same doom-mongers are still bleating.
1. Yes I was at the game, and yes our midfield was overrun, until the personnel was changed with Tal coming on (as Drew has pointed out).
My starting midfield would have been Teymourian, Tal, Speed & Faye for your info.
Do you attend the games, as you seem more obsessed with stats rather than the manner in which we play?
2. Of course recent form counts! We will have the same players in 3 months time (unless BSA cherrypicks the best). Mass changes involving new purchases is a very high risk strategy and no manager attached to his job would attempt it.
4. Yes we qualified for Europe. I'm as chuffed about it as you are and it was great to see an edge of the seat last game at the Reebok. Not exactly convincing was it though?
You keep on sticking your head in the sand and I'll keep on doom mongering. If we finish 7th or above next season, you can say you told me so.
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Philsfaxmachine
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Posted: Mon May 14th, 2007 07:38 pm |
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BadlyWornBoy wrote:
1. Yes I was at the game, and yes our midfield was overrun, until the personnel was changed with Tal coming on (as Drew has pointed out).
My starting midfield would have been Teymourian, Tal, Speed & Faye for your info.
Do you attend the games, as you seem more obsessed with stats rather than the manner in which we play?
2. Of course recent form counts! We will have the same players in 3 months time (unless BSA cherrypicks the best). Mass changes involving new purchases is a very high risk strategy and no manager attached to his job would attempt it.
4. Yes we qualified for Europe. I'm as chuffed about it as you are and it was great to see an edge of the seat last game at the Reebok. Not exactly convincing was it though?
You keep on sticking your head in the sand and I'll keep on doom mongering. If we finish 7th or above next season, you can say you told me so.
I support all these statements
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Valderee
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Posted: Mon May 14th, 2007 07:43 pm |
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Philsfaxmachine wrote: BadlyWornBoy wrote:
1. Yes I was at the game, and yes our midfield was overrun, until the personnel was changed with Tal coming on (as Drew has pointed out).
My starting midfield would have been Teymourian, Tal, Speed & Faye for your info.
Do you attend the games, as you seem more obsessed with stats rather than the manner in which we play?
2. Of course recent form counts! We will have the same players in 3 months time (unless BSA cherrypicks the best). Mass changes involving new purchases is a very high risk strategy and no manager attached to his job would attempt it.
4. Yes we qualified for Europe. I'm as chuffed about it as you are and it was great to see an edge of the seat last game at the Reebok. Not exactly convincing was it though?
You keep on sticking your head in the sand and I'll keep on doom mongering. If we finish 7th or above next season, you can say you told me so.
I support all these statements
If only you supported the Wanderers as much.............. 
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Harry Genshaw
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Posted: Mon May 14th, 2007 09:10 pm |
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BadlyWornBoy wrote: Our current form is dire, we need the manager to turn it round and our starting line up for the Villa game makes me think he hasn't a clue.
I find this statement pretty naive to be honest. A new manager with 2 games to go isnt going to make massive wholesale changes. I expect him to use pre season for trying out different tactics and formations but change will come, it will just come slowly. One positive I've noticed already is he isnt afraid to make early substitutions when he thinks its not working. BSA would keep us waiting until the 80th minute.
Evolution not revolution.
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Drew
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Posted: Tue May 15th, 2007 07:06 am |
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BadlyWornBoy wrote: Billy Bradshaw wrote:
Ok.....
1. Our midfield was not overrun by Villa. Were you at the game or just see the highlights or read the paper? It did its job. We are in Europe. What midfield would you have played?
2. I'm quite aware of the 'concept' of looking at recent results to predict future ones . But we are having a 3 month gap with a new manager and probably some new faces. I don't think 'recent form' will count for anything...do you? As was mentioned by someone else.....Wet Spams recent form would have made them champios if projected over the full season......but it doesn't work like that does it???
4. Slightest margin or landslide. WE QUALIFIED FOR EUROPE. It was more than many (especially on this forum) had predicted. So we've had a better season than all the doom-mongers on here were predicting, yet those same doom-mongers are still bleating.
1. Yes I was at the game, and yes our midfield was overrun, until the personnel was changed with Tal coming on (as Drew has pointed out).
My starting midfield would have been Teymourian, Tal, Speed & Faye for your info.
Do you attend the games, as you seem more obsessed with stats rather than the manner in which we play?
2. Of course recent form counts! We will have the same players in 3 months time (unless BSA cherrypicks the best). Mass changes involving new purchases is a very high risk strategy and no manager attached to his job would attempt it.
4. Yes we qualified for Europe. I'm as chuffed about it as you are and it was great to see an edge of the seat last game at the Reebok. Not exactly convincing was it though?
You keep on sticking your head in the sand and I'll keep on doom mongering. If we finish 7th or above next season, you can say you told me so.
I would have started Andranik as well.
Bolton have never been a team that maintains consistent form. We always seem to have two good periods in the season and two bad ones and I don't think this season has been any different. The order of good to bad sometimes changes and how good and how bad does but don't forget last season when we lost 7 in a row. Over the season as a whole we have been good enough for 7th and over the last 4 seasons, despite the bad runs each time, we have been top 8 each year. Form counts yes but it also changes. I am hopeful of a similar overall season again next year (although I could do without the bad runs).
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Billy Bradshaw
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Posted: Tue May 15th, 2007 07:33 am |
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BadlyWornBoy wrote: 1. Yes I was at the game, and yes our midfield was overrun, until the personnel was changed with Tal coming on (as Drew has pointed out).
My starting midfield would have been Teymourian, Tal, Speed & Faye for your info.
Do you attend the games, as you seem more obsessed with stats rather than the manner in which we play?
2. Of course recent form counts! We will have the same players in 3 months time (unless BSA cherrypicks the best). Mass changes involving new purchases is a very high risk strategy and no manager attached to his job would attempt it.
4. Yes we qualified for Europe. I'm as chuffed about it as you are and it was great to see an edge of the seat last game at the Reebok. Not exactly convincing was it though?
You keep on sticking your head in the sand and I'll keep on doom mongering. If we finish 7th or above next season, you can say you told me so.
Looks like we'll never agree on this then BWB.
I still maintain that our midfield was not overrun.....never in a million years.
Everyone is shouting for Andranik to start, but there must be a reason why two successive managers don't start him in games?
We played a team at the weekend that was in great form, particularly away from home. Many on the forum were predicting defeat. It wasn't a game to experiment and for trying something new. It was a game where we had to get the points at whatever cost. Wise heads were needed and that's what we got. Their first goal was a cracker and 9 times out of 10, he'd have sliced it and missed the target.
You think I'm more obsessed with stats, but Sunday had nothing to do with our style of play. It was about getting the points to take us into Europe.....and we did just that.
I'm sorry, but it's a silly suggestion to link the last 3-4 months to the start of next season to gauge our form. Even if SA was still here and nothing had changed, it wouldn't be accurate, but with a new manager, new style and some new players, the last 4 months will have no bearing whatsoever on the start of next season.
So to avoid your wrath, we have to finish 7th or above? PL history is proving that there's a fine line between 5th and 10th. A couple of good games can see you shoot up the table and a couple of bad ones can see the opposite effect. I don't have my head in the sand, but you and others are judging the new manager already, after he was dropped in it by SA. He completed the job we set out to do, so IMO, he has made a very good start. I'll be looking forward to seeing a Sammy Lee team next season, but unlike some on this forum, I'll give the man a chance to get it right, rather than this obsession with attacking the manager after every defeat.
We did ok on Sunday and I don't understand any criticism of the tactics when we achieved exactly what we wanted to achieve. It doesn't matter if it was 'only just'. Many teams 'only just' win games or qualify for Europe. It doesn't matter if we did it by 10 clear points or just one....we did it. You would think by the negativity on this forum that we had missed out. 
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bdi
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Posted: Tue May 15th, 2007 07:40 am |
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bwfc_lulu wrote: all in all things are ok at the moment.
Yes we had a poor 2nd half. But.
2006/7 56
2005/6 56
2004/5 58
2003/4 53
2002/3 44
2001/2 40
Still looks like improvement followed by consistency to me.
Lulu Totally agree. To qualify for Europe you have to basically average 1.5 Points a game, and over the last 3 season we have shown that we are capable of achieving this target. Taking into consideration the ANC next year, I would like to see what summer signings there are, and if we can get the players in to cover the ANC period, can hopefully see this target being achieved again.
1.5 Points a game over 38 games to me is consistency. 
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Andy Walsh
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Posted: Tue May 15th, 2007 07:57 am |
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We're trying to keep Ben Haim according to one paper this morning.
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Frankie
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Posted: Tue May 15th, 2007 09:28 am |
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Andy Walsh wrote: We're trying to keep Ben Haim according to one paper this morning.
Ah GOOD... I have just said I would like him to stay in the Villans MotM thread.
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bdi
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Posted: Tue May 15th, 2007 10:14 am |
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According to the Offish Site they have offered him a new deal.
http://www.bwfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Team/0,,1004~1025355,00.html
If he does decide too sign it would be great news. Especially with all the rumours saying that he is definitely going,
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"Success is an Enemy to the Loser of the Day".
"The Reebok is My Church"
"Wanderers is my Religion".
(After 61 years, you either have Bolton inside you, or you start supporting another Team)... Since I haven't started supporting another Team, tells my side of the story).
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Drew
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Posted: Tue May 15th, 2007 10:47 am |
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I think few supporters will have any problem with him re-signing. The way he has conducted himself since January has been exemplary. He has never criticised the club off the field and he has played with commitment on the field.
I have heard rumours that it was BSA that he didn't get along with but have nothing to substantiate that. IF its true then maybe there is more chance of him staying now.
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Frankie
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Posted: Tue May 15th, 2007 10:59 am |
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bdifb wrote: According to the Offish Site they have offered him a new deal.
http://www.bwfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Team/0,,1004~1025355,00.html
If he does decide too sign it would be great news. Especially with all the rumours saying that he is definitely going,
 cheers bdifb
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dickygreen
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Posted: Tue May 15th, 2007 11:09 am |
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bdifb wrote: According to the Offish Site they have offered him a new deal.
http://www.bwfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Team/0,,1004~1025355,00.html
If he does decide too sign it would be great news. Especially with all the rumours saying that he is definitely going,
Even for him to be considering it is a good sign, it shows there's a feeling of optimism behind the scenes. If everyone was downbeat he wouldn't even be thinking twice, though it gives him a good tool to negotiate with other clubs I suppose.
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Drew
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Posted: Tue May 15th, 2007 11:25 am |
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dickygreen wrote: bdifb wrote: According to the Offish Site they have offered him a new deal.
http://www.bwfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Team/0,,1004~1025355,00.html
If he does decide too sign it would be great news. Especially with all the rumours saying that he is definitely going,
Even for him to be considering it is a good sign, it shows there's a feeling of optimism behind the scenes. If everyone was downbeat he wouldn't even be thinking twice, though it gives him a good tool to negotiate with other clubs I suppose.
He has said he wants some time to decide what he is going to do. He would be a fool if he did otherwise. With any luck he will do a Campo and sign on again.
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Valderee
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Posted: Tue May 15th, 2007 11:53 am |
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dickygreen wrote: Even for him to be considering it is a good sign, it shows there's a feeling of optimism behind the scenes. If everyone was downbeat he wouldn't even be thinking twice, though it gives him a good tool to negotiate with other clubs I suppose.
Couldn't have put it better. I must admit I'd given up on him, but for him to say that means things must be getting back to normal now. It is as if the players knew Sam was going ages ago, but now they know we are in UEFA and who the manager is, maybe stability and optimism will return.
Also encouraging to read "El Cid's" comments.
Mind you, pfm says there are 'no positives' and he is always right. 
Last edited on Tue May 15th, 2007 11:56 am by Valderee
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White Steel
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Posted: Tue May 15th, 2007 12:44 pm |
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Drew wrote: I think few supporters will have any problem with him re-signing. The way he has conducted himself since January has been exemplary. He has never criticised the club off the field and he has played with commitment on the field.
I have heard rumours that it was BSA that he didn't get along with but have nothing to substantiate that. IF its true then maybe there is more chance of him staying now.
I sort of agree. All problems and issues came from "representatives" rather than him; and on my "happy to see them go if it's for something genuinely better" then I think if Chelsea had offered what we'd asked they'd have been serious; therefore it would have been something better
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bwfc_lulu
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Posted: Tue May 15th, 2007 05:08 pm |
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I'd be delighted if he re-signed. Particularly with the ANC this coming season.
However, I'm not getting too excited. His comments are extremely non-committal and it's likely he's keeping us as a back up in case he doesn't get an offer from a club he wants to move to.
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Drew
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Posted: Tue May 15th, 2007 07:08 pm |
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bwfc_lulu wrote: I'd be delighted if he re-signed. Particularly with the ANC this coming season.
However, I'm not getting too excited. His comments are extremely non-committal and it's likely he's keeping us as a back up in case he doesn't get an offer from a club he wants to move to.
I think PG is smarter than that. I am sure that the offer, like Campo's havbe been in the past, will be time-limited. Yes he will have been allowed a few days to think about it but I don't think they will let him piss about for too long. What date does his contract expire?
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bdi
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Posted: Wed May 16th, 2007 01:58 pm |
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Was quite shocked,  but pleased that Bolton are ranked 78 in the 2007 Uefa Teams Rankings. So it must show how far we have come, and surely that is good for both the club and bringing in new players. Don't understand all those co-efficients though.
Uefa Team Rankings 2007
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Philsfaxmachine
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Posted: Wed May 16th, 2007 02:05 pm |
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bdifb wrote: Was quite shocked, but pleased that Bolton are ranked 78 in the 2007 Uefa Teams Rankings. So it must show how far we have come, and surely that is good for both the club and bringing in new players. Don't understand all those co-efficients though.
Uefa Team Rankings 2007
That list is boll0x! Leeds are 82???? and teams like malaga are above us??
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bdi
Member
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Posted: Wed May 16th, 2007 02:21 pm |
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Philsfaxmachine wrote: That list is boll0x! Leeds are 82???? and teams like malaga are above us??
As I said, I don't understand the co-efficients, which must in someway affect standings, similar as to Country Rankings, when people wonder why some Countries are ranked higher than others.
Someone on the Site will probably know how they work, but until I know exactly how they work, I will still be confused. Until that time I cannot say that the list is a load of rubbish, since I cannot prove it.
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"Success is an Enemy to the Loser of the Day".
"The Reebok is My Church"
"Wanderers is my Religion".
(After 61 years, you either have Bolton inside you, or you start supporting another Team)... Since I haven't started supporting another Team, tells my side of the story).
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