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ohhsammysammy
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 10:47 am |
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Whilst I think most Bolton fans will be happy with a mid-table finish in a period of transition next season, the general consensus in the media is that we are doomed. Reading through this article in the Times about Derby's promotion, I came across these few paragraphs:
The good news is that, while Derby can expect to be in a relegation battle however well they invest, Bolton Wanderers and Wigan Athletic appear to have agreed a suicide pact to judge by their recent appointments.
Shining examples in previous years of how good management can keep small-town clubs in the Premiership, both North West outposts appear determined to show how quickly all that fine work can go to waste. You will not hear anyone say a bad word about Sammy Lee and Chris Hutchings, but even their best friends fear that they are assistant managers promoted with ludicrous haste after the resignations of Sam Allardyce and Paul Jewell in the past month.
Lee and Hutchings will surely succeed only in demonstrating what outstanding work their predecessors did in not only guiding Bolton and Wigan into the top flight, but, even more impressively, keeping them up.
Should we really be bracing ourselves for a relegation battle next season like this article suggests or are they being too harsh on Sammy considering the season has only just finished and we are yet to see all the players he brings in?
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le god
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 11:10 am |
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don't know yet, all depends on who we bring in and what players we are able to keep.
If dioufy and Anelka both leave and we bring in fowler then yes we will be, but if we keep them i see no reason we can't be in the top 12 again.
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Woody
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 11:12 am |
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I'm not bracing myself for a relegation scrap as of yet. At the end of the day, Allardyce didn't just manage us to one of the top eight teams in this division, but he built a nucleus of a team which is capable in staying there without him.
Unlike Wigan, we do have a good team. Good management from Allardyce allowed us to avoid relegation, and allowed us to climb up the table. A mixture of a good manager and a great team allowed us to stay there. Whether we can continue our record that only Manchester United, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea can claim to have, we will have to wait and see. However, I really see no indication that we will be in a relegation scrap.
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Salford White
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 11:14 am |
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| Personally, Im anticipating a poor season with a finish just below mid table. GIven that we've been batting above our weight to some degree for 3 seasons now, the bubble has to burst sometime IMO, particularly if we lose 2 or 3 key players and bearing in mind that the ANC will seriously deplete the squad we have.
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Campos Barber
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 11:26 am |
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I think it's very much a case of the same old story. We have for the past couple of seasons finished above where we should. We have to wait and see what or who come and go in the summer.
If we keep the majority of the squad and add to it I see us finishing comfortably in mid table however if, as many are predicting, we lose the likes of Diouf, Anelka, Andranik etc and they are replaced by lesser players or not replaced at all then I fear the worst and think there could be a strong possibility of a relegation scrap.
Most supporters are worried about how thin our squad has been for a year or two and with the UEFA Cup and the ANC to contend with next season it could all become too much
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bdi
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 11:54 am |
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IMO, I cannot see us being in a relegation scrap, but would still like to reserve judgement until I know what the Squad is for next season.
Some players will be playing a lot of games next season. (Premiership, UEFA Cup, and both the Carling & FA Cups, with some also in Internationals and the ANC). So New Signings, will be a major key as to how we do next season.
I would, at this moment in time, be happy to say a nearer to a Top Ten Finish, rather than a relegation scrap.
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Philsfaxmachine
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 12:08 pm |
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I'm very worried, I just can't see the logic in handing the reigns of a top 7 multi million pound company to a novice. I see Deschamps has stepped down at Juventus, thats the type of top european coach we should be looking at not somebody with no experience.
The worst thing is for me is how many people say what a nice guy little Sam is, how many nice guy, winning managers do you know of?
Typical small time Bolton lack of ambition IMO. The board know that if they went for a decent coach he would demand money which Bolton aren't prepared to make available. Don't tell me there is no cash at Bolton with the pittence we have spent since coming up and all the cash washing around from this new TV deal.
I expect the same response when spending money is mentioned, Leeds, Leeds Leeds. Let me save you the bother, I'm not saying we spend 20 million on a center back or 7 million on Seth Johnson but we would need to spend more than we have to attract a better coach and better players.
Last edited on Tue May 29th, 2007 12:12 pm by Philsfaxmachine
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bwfc_lulu
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 12:28 pm |
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Doom doom doom doom doom.
The media just want to pick on the small clubs as usual. What a bloody surprise there. Sammy Lee has been working with Sam Allardyce for a considerable amount of time, as have the backroom and the team. I don't anticipate that Sam Allardyce held each and every one of their hands every day - there will have been a large degree of delegation - and I don't anticipate that all of their respective strengths will evaporate without being able to see Sam every day at the office. From what I know, Sammy Lee and Ricky Sbragia ran the training side of things anyway - Sam had very little input on a day to day basis - and all the systems for ProZone are up and running and again don't need his input.
Who knows what will happen? None of us know what Sammy has planned or how he'll shape up as a manager. The media is one thing - it's expected of them. But as a SUPPORTER of this football club, he has my full backing. At least give him a chance.
Personally, I'm already starting to see positives. A more comprehensive friendly schedule, announced earlier than in the past, has been put in place. And signings are being announced already.
Truth is, we none of us will know until around Christmas time what is in store for us. But I'll still be there supporting the lads every step of the way.
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Billy Bradshaw
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 12:36 pm |
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Philsfaxmachine wrote: I'm very worried, I just can't see the logic in handing the reigns of a top 7 multi million pound company to a novice. I see Deschamps has stepped down at Juventus, thats the type of top european coach we should be looking at not somebody with no experience.
The worst thing is for me is how many people say what a nice guy little Sam is, how many nice guy, winning managers do you know of?
Typical small time Bolton lack of ambition IMO. The board know that if they went for a decent coach he would demand money which Bolton aren't prepared to make available. Don't tell me there is no cash at Bolton with the pittence we have spent since coming up and all the cash washing around from this new TV deal.
I expect the same response when spending money is mentioned, Leeds, Leeds Leeds. Let me save you the bother, I'm not saying we spend 20 million on a center back or 7 million on Seth Johnson but we would need to spend more than we have to attract a better coach and better players.
Mmmm........
Sam Allardyce when he took over Bolton - Top flight novice.
Roy Keane at Sunderland - Complete novice.
Graeme Souness - Bags of experience, but still a lousy manager.
Terry Venables - He's hailed as a messiah, but it's a long time since he won anything with club or country.
You might counter by saying that we should have picked a manager better able to succeed in the top flight. But the idea that someone like Deschamps would come to Bolton is laughable and shows that you're completely out of touch. So perhaps we should get someone from the lower divisions, but they don't have the experience.
Every manager has to start somewhere and LSL has been lucky enough to start with a PL club.
The truth is that I don't know how we'll do next season, but LSL is one of the most experienced coaches in the country.
I don't want the club to go into too much debt for players, and I'm doubly cetain that i don't want them to go into debt for a coach. The FA broke the bank to get the Swede, and we all know what happened there......they are still paying the guy!!
Do you honestly think Mourinho or Ferguson could do any better here than SA given the financial constraints?
Your arguments once again are flawed. Flawed by the hope that one day, the board will give the manager a large wad to spend. They never will. This is Bolton and that's the way it is. Coming on here every day and putting forward the same argument (if only they would spend more money) is wasting your time and ours. We won't spend that kind of money.....end of!!!
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le god
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 12:48 pm |
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Billy Bradshaw wrote: Philsfaxmachine wrote: I'm very worried, I just can't see the logic in handing the reigns of a top 7 multi million pound company to a novice. I see Deschamps has stepped down at Juventus, thats the type of top european coach we should be looking at not somebody with no experience.
The worst thing is for me is how many people say what a nice guy little Sam is, how many nice guy, winning managers do you know of?
Typical small time Bolton lack of ambition IMO. The board know that if they went for a decent coach he would demand money which Bolton aren't prepared to make available. Don't tell me there is no cash at Bolton with the pittence we have spent since coming up and all the cash washing around from this new TV deal.
I expect the same response when spending money is mentioned, Leeds, Leeds Leeds. Let me save you the bother, I'm not saying we spend 20 million on a center back or 7 million on Seth Johnson but we would need to spend more than we have to attract a better coach and better players.
Mmmm........
Sam Allardyce when he took over Bolton - Top flight novice.
Roy Keane at Sunderland - Complete novice.
Graeme Souness - Bags of experience, but still a lousy manager.
Terry Venables - He's hailed as a messiah, but it's a long time since he won anything with club or country.
You might counter by saying that we should have picked a manager better able to succeed in the top flight. But the idea that someone like Deschamps would come to Bolton is laughable and shows that you're completely out of touch. So perhaps we should get someone from the lower divisions, but they don't have the experience.
Every manager has to start somewhere and LSL has been lucky enough to start with a PL club.
The truth is that I don't know how we'll do next season, but LSL is one of the most experienced coaches in the country.
I don't want the club to go into too much debt for players, and I'm doubly cetain that i don't want them to go into debt for a coach. The FA broke the bank to get the Swede, and we all know what happened there......they are still paying the guy!!
Do you honestly think Mourinho or Ferguson could do any better here than SA given the financial constraints?
Your arguments once again are flawed. Flawed by the hope that one day, the board will give the manager a large wad to spend. They never will. This is Bolton and that's the way it is. Coming on here every day and putting forward the same argument (if only they would spend more money) is wasting your time and ours. We won't spend that kind of money.....end of!!!
As i've said before the answer to that is probably yes, simply because they have the name Mourinho or Ferguson... players will bend over backwards to play for such amazing managers doesn't matter what the team is! if we had mourinho now are you telling me we wouldn't attract some excellent players? same goes for fergie.
of course it will never happen but that is the truth of the matter.
as for spending cash, no we will never spend the 30 million we need to spend to help us push on, but unfortunatly i think its getting ever more vital that you do spend cash in the summer due to the amount of takeovers that are happening.. now i know i've said this before and people say "oh yeah but so and so spent this and that and look at them" but were talking LONG TERM MASSIVE INVESTMENT here and we can't compete almost half the clubs in the prem are now under massive investment and in my eyes that puts us leagues behind them.
we've done amazingly well to compete the way we have for the amount of time we have but it won't last forever.. but still i expect us to be in mid-table this season it would take a dreadfull start to see us in a relegation battle.
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Billy Bradshaw
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 12:51 pm |
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I disagree Le God. The question wasn't whether they could do better, but could they do better given the financial constraints that SA worked under. I think you're overestimating the pull of Ferguson and Mourinho. Players are by nature, mercenary. They will go where the money is. If they follow Mourinho, it's because he has gone to another wealthy club who will pay huge transfer fees and wages.
But i don't see either of them necessarily being a better coach or motivator of our current squad?
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Reach Bees Yell
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 01:14 pm |
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I think anything between 4th and 20th is possible next season!
realistically I think mid table depending on who we manage to bring in and the size of the squad. It's too early to tell. if we keep Diouf and Anelka and bring in enough players to cover the ANC then we should finish top half, if we lose those and have a small squad then the bottom half is more likely.
I'm still unsure as to how Lee will do but we just have to give him our support and hope he gets it right!
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Andy Walsh
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 01:28 pm |
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No chance of a relegation scrap IMHO. Why should there be?
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zippy
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 01:47 pm |
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Just a couple of points
Based on the Squad we have NOW :
1) Relegation battle – I would put good money (if I thought I could get decent odds) on Wigan and Fulham going down next year. To think that there isn’t another premiership team that will finish below us is laughable. Haven’t seen much of Derby this year, but they looked bobbins yesterday. City, Brimingham, West Ham (minus Tevez), Sunderland and Reading are all teams I can see finishing below us.
2) Sammy Lee’s appointment – Whatever you think of Allardyce, he has left the club with one tangible asset – The TEAM. By that I mean the classic definition as the Whole being greater than the sum of the parts. Very few football teams can boast this. To throw this away by bringing in a new manager (assuming that we could attract a “top” manager) seems a far larger gamble than letting Sammy Lee have a go, particularly as he is the most experienced person in world football of the Bolton team ethic.
3) Money – We do (as do others) face the prospect of being left behind financially, but there’s really nothing we can do about it. With the exception of Ambramovich every other takeover has been financed against future revenue. In short splash a bit of cash now – exploit fans for a long time. All the clubs with these “benefactors” have large fan bases – sorry revenue streams. All they really have now is different owners siphoning of larger amounts of cash. Take Liverpool. Beneathus is talking about spending huge amounts of money, but apparently he’s already spent 80 odd million to fluke one Champions League trophy.
No foreign billionaire is going to look twice at us because we don’t sell enough replica shirts. Fact of life – face it. In the long run it may actually put us in a better position.
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White Steel
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 02:10 pm |
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Zippy,
Technically that's three points. But I aree with them all so will let you off.
The Times article is crap journalism. "You will not hear anyone say a bad word about Lee and Hutchings but even their best friends fear"? So who are these "best friends"? And their fear isn't a bad word? I tell you, if one of my best friends were to go claiming to the media I wasn't up to my job then the friendship wouldn't last. It's simply that they aren't ex- early-90's Man U players.
Whether we're in a relegation battle or not depends on how ruthless the board are. I think Sammy Lee was the correct choice at the time, and two end-of-season games in "the time" has hardly changed. But, he is an unknown quanitity. I really hope he does well and shows up these naysayers, but if he doesn't then the board needs to be ready by Christmas to be looking elswhere. They needn't make a snap decision before then.
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Billy Bradshaw
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 03:29 pm |
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I agree with those three points as well. In terms of takeovers, just look down the road at Old Startford, where the Glazers are ready to sell up. Apparently, the Man U 'franchise' isn't the cash-cow they thought it was and the interest payments of around £60m-£70m per year are causing serious pain.
As RBY says, we really could finish anywhere between 4th and 20th, although I don't believe a relegation scrap is likely. But in the first 2-3 months of this year, we had many on this forum saying they would accept a much lower finish if it meant we played better 'football'. Some even went so far as to say that they'd rather be in the Championship if it meant more exciting games. Yet here some of those people are complaining that we are heading for a relegation scrap.  Would that be acceptable as long as we played 'sexy football'? It wouldn't for me!!!
I'm no longer SA's biggest fan, but he had charisma and he knew how to appeal to a players better nature. He persuaded players to come to the Reebok who would never have given us a glance. There was (and still is) a danger that some players would leave after he went. That was bad enough, but the best chance we have of keeping hold of the better players is to remove any worry about a 'new broom' coming in and the possibilities that stem from that. We have appointed a manager who is a fully paid up member of the Allardyce School of Football Management. He has seen the benefits of the huge backroom staff, the arm around the players shoulder and dealing with players as individuals. The appointment of LSL would have calmed the players. I only have one concern over LSL and that's his ability to seperate hsi coaching from management. he can be jack-the-lad on the training pitch, but needs to develop a hard edge, in order to be as ruthless as he needs to be.
Despite his apprenticeship under SA, LSL sounds like he has his own ideas about our style of play. That can only mean one thing and that's a willingness to see us play more stylish football. So I don't know why anybody is worried at this point in time? If we don't recruit by kick-off time, then I'll be worried.
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Irwin22
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 03:45 pm |
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Andy Walsh wrote: No chance of a relegation scrap IMHO. Why should there be?
I argee we havent got the flashiest players or the any of the big name players but we are getting better look at the checkbook(chelsea) lost are first match aginst them but the next match a draw we are getting better.Better players as it gose on who know one day bolton might get a player into england or come close to win the uefa who knows why sould we even be talking about this "relagation battle" sammy lee is a fine manger he been at the wing of SA for a bit what are we to worry.
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 03:50 pm |
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If we go into the season with a similar size squad as this i fear we will struggle. Not enough to be relegated, but as ventured elsewhere around mid-table. I feel we need at least three or four more quality players to call on than we had this season. To many times we had players playing out of position which, in my view, was one of the main reason our season tailed off.
Another solution would be to give one or two of our younger players a chance and see if they 'sink or swim'. No more of this crap like playing Campo at right back or Plodersen at left. Must be so demorolising for the young uns to see such drastic and ill judged choices
Thats my long answer. Short answer, mid-table.
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ohhsammysammy
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 04:53 pm |
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I thought at the beginning of last season that we'd struggle and SA proved me wrong, but that was without UEFA Cup football and long runs in the other cups.
We do need 4 or 5 more players as everyone knows and i'd like to see the kids used in the Carling Cup like Arsenal did, the CC is bottom of priorities next season so let's see how these youngters fare.
I really hate how this article compares us to Wigan. The only similarities are that we have promoted assistants to managers and we are both north-west teams. We're an established PL team who have qualified for Europe and we have far better players.
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Laz
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 06:11 pm |
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| Some people are clearly too anxious about what is going to happen to the team, personally i cant see many if any players leaving, and have faith in little sam to bring more depth in quality into the squad. There are alot worse teams than us in the league and if even if we have a poor season in relative terms to recent season i cant envisage us finishing below low mid-table.
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bw@bw
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 06:21 pm |
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Every season there is a queue of posters on here saying "next year we will be in a relegation scrap"- and for the last 4 years they have been miles wide of the mark. If they say it every year for the next 20 they will probably be right sometime.
What the Times article, and plenty others seem to be forgetting is that Sammy Lee was recruited as Sam's potential replacement, and groomed as such. The board would doubtless have liked another year or two out of Sam but were under no illusions that he would go on forever - so I don't really think there was any doubt about who would succeed Sam.
It IS fair to say that the coming year promises to be tough on all fronts. A lot of money is being thrown at serial under achievers and some of it will pay off. Another couple of years and we may see some more Leeds type implosions - but in the short term we probably have to face a big 8 money wise, not just the big 4 (add Villa, Toon, Spurs and Citeh) - and Everton seem to be settling down into a stable setup. Add to that the likelihood that at least Sunderland and Brum will buy into the 40 points region, and we will have to work very hard to get over the 50 points mark and mid-table security this year.
My own hunch - for what it is worth - is that if we can keep our squad together - and add one seriously good midfielder - not a clue who it could be - we will have our best all round squad ever (I have high hopes for some of the recent younger signings) and will still be going forward as a club. That should put us in the 50's points wise, and somewhere between 8th and 12th - but it will be hard.
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Frankie
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 07:08 pm |
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Depending on who we get in during the summer and also what coverage we get for the ANC I can see us around 8/10th.
But with the right player I do not see why we are not pushing again for the Waffa.
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ohhsammysammy
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 07:10 pm |
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They've just been talking about this on TalkSport going along with finishing midtable will be a good first season for Sammy
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bwfc_lulu
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Posted: Tue May 29th, 2007 07:17 pm |
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ohhsammysammy wrote: They've just been talking about this on TalkSport going along with finishing midtable will be a good first season for Sammy
Haha, seems to have been good enough for Martin Jol.
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