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Drew
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 10:02 am |
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This bit made me laugh. Mandaric said, "Gary has made a commitment and I expect him to honour it." How many managers has Mandaric sacked before the end of his commitment to them?
Do we believe that we have even approached Megson. Maybe this is Mandaric trying to force Megson into signing his contract.
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le god
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 10:07 am |
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Drew wrote: This bit made me laugh. Mandaric said, "Gary has made a commitment and I expect him to honour it." How many managers has Mandaric sacked before the end of his commitment to them?
Do we believe that we have even approached Megson. Maybe this is Mandaric trying to force Megson into signing his contract.
I believe it, i mean why would mandaric bother trying to unsettle his own manager that he's just appointed?
Gartside is "a known admirer" of MUGson according to the press. Erm what has he been watching?
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NormidTerrace
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 10:19 am |
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le god wrote: Drew wrote: This bit made me laugh. Mandaric said, "Gary has made a commitment and I expect him to honour it." How many managers has Mandaric sacked before the end of his commitment to them?
Do we believe that we have even approached Megson. Maybe this is Mandaric trying to force Megson into signing his contract.
I believe it, i mean why would mandaric bother trying to unsettle his own manager that he's just appointed?
Gartside is "a known admirer" of MUGson according to the press. Erm what has he been watching?
His wage demands? 
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Mich Caine
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 10:19 am |
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What a mess!
Last week when Sammy left I think we all were talking about who we want as new manager kind of thinking that we would be able to get who we wanted, within reason. Yet how worrying it was to see reports such as we were denied permission to speak to Megson, who we shouldn't forget did do a really good job at Stockport and two promotions with West Brom, although he was hopeless at Nottingham Forest in league 1 and had to resign. I find it bizarre that we would be wanting him, he is definitely not the right man.
IMO I think Paul Jewell was the number one target, but I think Jewell must have told PG that he is not interested in the job. I just think there is no way on Earth that PG would be looking down the road of paying compensation for managers like Megson and not have considered Paul Jewell who is out of work and who I think I am right in saying has had 3 seasons experience in the Premiership and no relegations, that is very impressive with teams of Wigan and Bradford.
Steve Bruce, I have a neutral opinion of him, nothing to write home about, but not bad either. I think he would turn us around and get the team organised, but I can't see him doing anything for us long term.
Chris Coleman, again I have a neutral opinion of him. I thought Fulham had become a very very poor side under Coleman, but it is true that he didn't have much money to spend, Tigana and Sanchez however have had a lot. I think he is a likeable guy and the players will respect him and he could organise the team so I am certainly not against him beoming manager. But again I don't really see him being a success long term.
Gary Megson - definitely not good enough.
Aidy Boothroyd has said he is not interested, IMO I think Jewell is not interested, I think Bruce is but Birmingham won't let him leave - probably knowing that there is no one better than Bruce on the market.
The former Depor coach Javier Irureta is an exciting option, but just can't see that one happening.
I personally am still delighted Sammy Lee has gone. I don't think his results got him the sack, I think if everything was fine behind the scenes then he would still have time to try turn this around.
I know Billy has said he has no respect for Speed and Nolan for what happened, but I have a good friend who worked for a great company and had a great boss and a new manager came in and changed things totally from what was fine and successful and people were happy with to really making the employees very unhappy with new methods, new training, the team became very unhappy and one by one they all left. I just wonder Billy if you were in a job where you had the same manager who you respected and liked and he was replaced by someone who really pissed you off, started making a lot of changes that you are not happy with, changes that you thought were wrong and unnecessary, would you put up with it all and back your boss 100% or would you be feeling pissed off and wanting out? A happy ship is a successful ship!
I mean Speed clearly was unhappy with what Lee was doing, I personally admire Speed for what he did. Ricky Sbragia was treated badly, the training methods of the team changed, its clear Sammy Lee had a row with McCann a few games back and with Nolan (understandable), Campo, etc. Sammy Lee seemed like he was a really stubborn man who wanted to stamp his authority in a bad way. I think the team have a fantastic bond and that is why you still saw players giving their all but I don't think any were happy.
I think there will be a huge relief and weight lifted off the players now Sammy Lee has gone and we will see huge improvement (although with some really difficult games coming up the results may continue to struggle in the next 6 games).
As for next manager:
http://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/next-bolton-manager/next-permanent-manager
Well I am worried that Souness has come into 5/1 with some bookies, surely Gartside wouldn't appoint him, I can't see those two getting on and Souness is absolutely bobbins. My money would be on Coleman which right now I would be happy with.
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Mark E
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 10:23 am |
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Personally I'd be very happy with Coleman, or Jeweel, wasn't Jewell knocking about on Thursday?
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le god
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 10:29 am |
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i don't understand Gartside's thinking, if this is the type of manager he wanted, Coleman, Megson... he would have had them biting his hands off in the summer.
Coleman was avaliable as was Mugson, Jewell might have been persuaded for a quick return and Bruce might have seen us as a stable club.
instead he's thrown SL in at the deep end, not given him enough time, and made the club a completly undesireable crisis hot pot in the process.
what is the matter with him?! why is he sounding out 3rd and 4th rate managers? I'd much rather just have Knox, I'd rather have Sammy Lee.
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Drew
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 10:49 am |
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le god wrote: ... instead he's thrown SL in at the deep end, not given him enough time, and made the club a completly undesireable crisis hot pot in the process ...
If we look at Wigan they should be in a worse position than us but they are not (admitedly not that far ahead). Is this because Hutchings hasn't tried to change very much and Lee did? I don't know but I think 6 months in charge is long enough to have got everything settled. I firmly believe that SL would have still been in charge if that was the case despite the results. Six months os long enough for any Chairman/Owner to know if they have made the right decision and the manager just needs more time. It doesn't really matter that 6 weeks of that 6 months was holiday time: most of the period wasn't. I don't think Lee was sacked (sorry - mutually consented) based on results.
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Mich Caine
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 11:19 am |
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le god wrote: i don't understand Gartside's thinking, if this is the type of manager he wanted, Coleman, Megson... he would have had them biting his hands off in the summer.
Coleman was avaliable as was Mugson, Jewell might have been persuaded for a quick return and Bruce might have seen us as a stable club.
instead he's thrown SL in at the deep end, not given him enough time, and made the club a completly undesireable crisis hot pot in the process.
what is the matter with him?! why is he sounding out 3rd and 4th rate managers? I'd much rather just have Knox, I'd rather have Sammy Lee.
I don't think PG or anyone really know who would be an awesome appointment, regardless of who is available. I mean we have to be realistic and we know that top managers who are at bigger and more successful clubs would never be interested in Bolton, but out of who would be interested no matter if they were available or not who would we want? That is tough enough, but throw in that we are now 9 games into the season, clubs are obviously reluctant to let their manager's leave and managers are also into a new season that they are focused on and have spent time building. Probably hence why Charlton this time last year had to appoint Les Reed for a while before someone they did want became available.
Maybe now isn't the right time and I can understand the reluctance in appointing a manager who lacks experience, but surely the only way Bolton can get a top manager is to pick up the most highly rated young managers from the league below? Just like we did with Big Sam. i.e. Big Sam now would never have gone to Bolton when we were 18th in the championship when he came. Managers like Coleman, Bruce, etc have shown for many years just how much they are capable of, we know basically just how good we can become with one of those as manager - i.e. midtable at best, which I suppose we would dream of right now, but in the long term I feel we will end up the same way as what they took Birmingham and Fulham.
I personally would rather have Frank Spencer as manager than Sammy Lee.
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Mich Caine
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 11:25 am |
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Drew wrote: le god wrote: ... instead he's thrown SL in at the deep end, not given him enough time, and made the club a completly undesireable crisis hot pot in the process ...
If we look at Wigan they should be in a worse position than us but they are not (admitedly not that far ahead). Is this because Hutchings hasn't tried to change very much and Lee did? I don't know but I think 6 months in charge is long enough to have got everything settled. I firmly believe that SL would have still been in charge if that was the case despite the results. Six months os long enough for any Chairman/Owner to know if they have made the right decision and the manager just needs more time. It doesn't really matter that 6 weeks of that 6 months was holiday time: most of the period wasn't. I don't think Lee was sacked (sorry - mutually consented) based on results.
I agree, I really don't think it was results, the Chelsea performance was far improved and I think Sammy would have got more time had everything behind the scenes been ok and fine.
If Sammy was sacked just on results surely he would have been sacked straight after the Chelsea game. I think things just detiorated behind the scenes to beyond retrievable.
The mutual agreement surely was just to put a positive slant on both Gartside and Sammy Lee. Sammy Lee wouldn't want on his CV that he was sacked after 11 league games in his first management job and PG doesn't sack managers.
Sammy wouldn't have left if he had the choice, he kept saying week after week he will get it right, he wouldn't walk away if he believed he could turn things around.
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Billy Bradshaw
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 12:14 pm |
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Mich Caine wrote: I know Billy has said he has no respect for Speed and Nolan for what happened, but I have a good friend who worked for a great company and had a great boss and a new manager came in and changed things totally from what was fine and successful and people were happy with to really making the employees very unhappy with new methods, new training, the team became very unhappy and one by one they all left. I just wonder Billy if you were in a job where you had the same manager who you respected and liked and he was replaced by someone who really pissed you off, started making a lot of changes that you are not happy with, changes that you thought were wrong and unnecessary, would you put up with it all and back your boss 100% or would you be feeling pissed off and wanting out?
This is the point though. Your good friend didn't like what was happening, so he left. The manager didn't leave!
If Speed and Nolan were unhappy, they had two choices. They could be professional and knuckle down or they could leave. Incidentally, I'm not suggesting that the club captain shouldn't talk to the manager and voice his concerns on behalf of the team. But once he's voiced those concerns, he should get back to what he's paid to do, which is play football, and play it in the style the manager requires. The same goes for Speed. As a coach, he has the right to challenge, but then has to toe the line if the manager disagrees.
If it fails, then the manager pays the price. I have no argument with that. There were one or two games (at least) when Nolan was strolling around the pitch and not even chasing balls that were clearly reachable. That's unacceptable. Here, we have a situation where certain players clearly undermined the manager, and if you accept that they did that, you can also question the effort they put in during games. If they are p*ssed off during a game, are they really performing to the best of their abilities?
This is nothing to do with Sammy Lee, but given the situation above, I would back the manager every single time. Part of the reason that some managers won't touch us now, is that they have seen a highly rated (by other professionals) coach undermined by his chairman and players as he tries his best to drag the team out of the sh*t. Most pundits seem to think he had started that process (but we'll never know now), but he was still sacked (let's drop the 'mutual consent' pretence).
Any new manger that we now get, will come to Bolton because they are blinded by the chance to manage a PL team. They will fail to realise (Sammy Lee fell for this also) that Sam Allardyce was very clever in his timing when he left. He knew we were going down the pan and he got out just in time.
The new guy will get no cash, pressure from the chairman, worried about his own position, a decimated backroom, a team at the bottom of the table.....and a bunch of players who now believe they are in charge!!
I still think we have the squad to keep us up, but it's going to be a bumpy ride. But let's not pick Sammy Lee as a convenient target for all that goes wrong from now on.
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Drew
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 12:29 pm |
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Billy Bradshaw wrote: ... If Speed and Nolan were unhappy, they had two choices. They could be professional and knuckle down or they could leave. Incidentally, I'm not suggesting that the club captain shouldn't talk to the manager and voice his concerns on behalf of the team. But once he's voiced those concerns, he should get back to what he's paid to do, which is play football, and play it in the style the manager requires. The same goes for Speed. As a coach, he has the right to challenge, but then has to toe the line if the manager disagrees...
Sorry, Billy, this is where I disagree with you and refer back to my analogy of the Caine Mutiny. If the leader has sufficiently lost the plot then the professional thing is not to just knuckle down: it is to stand up against it - which is, maybe, what Speed did. The only negative thing that Speed said publicly was that it was his choice to step down from coaching and that he wasn't removed. We don't know what did happen but under the circumstances (i.e. what followed) then I tend to believe Speed on this one. Lee could have, and to be professional should have, said it was by mutual consent but he told the press he had relieved Speed of the coaching duties. It was only after that when Speed said he had stepped down.
I wouldn't toe the line with a manager that I considered incompetent. I would a) talk to his boss about it and then would leave if it wasn't sorted. Who knows how many players were going to leave once they got a chance.
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Billy Bradshaw
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 12:49 pm |
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Drew wrote: Sorry, Billy, this is where I disagree with you and refer back to my analogy of the Caine Mutiny. If the leader has sufficiently lost the plot then the professional thing is not to just knuckle down: it is to stand up against it - which is, maybe, what Speed did. I would argue then, that the performance against Chelsea proved that SL had not lost the plot, and perhaps Speed was just p*ssed off because he was dropped? The only negative thing that Speed said publicly was that it was his choice to step down from coaching and that he wasn't removed. We don't know what did happen but under the circumstances (i.e. what followed) then I tend to believe Speed on this one. Lee could have, and to be professional should have, said it was by mutual consent but he told the press he had relieved Speed of the coaching duties. It was only after that when Speed said he had stepped down. I agree that Speed didn't speak out....just Nolan. Who knows how many players were going to leave once they got a chance.
That's very subjective Drew. As far as we are aware, the only three unhappy players were Campo, Nolan and Speed....and Campo soon shut up when he was recalled.
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Drew
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 12:52 pm |
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Billy Bradshaw wrote: Drew wrote: Sorry, Billy, this is where I disagree with you and refer back to my analogy of the Caine Mutiny. If the leader has sufficiently lost the plot then the professional thing is not to just knuckle down: it is to stand up against it - which is, maybe, what Speed did. I would argue then, that the performance against Chelsea proved that SL had not lost the plot, and perhaps Speed was just p*ssed off because he was dropped? The only negative thing that Speed said publicly was that it was his choice to step down from coaching and that he wasn't removed. We don't know what did happen but under the circumstances (i.e. what followed) then I tend to believe Speed on this one. Lee could have, and to be professional should have, said it was by mutual consent but he told the press he had relieved Speed of the coaching duties. It was only after that when Speed said he had stepped down. I agree that Speed didn't speak out....just Nolan. Who knows how many players were going to leave once they got a chance.
That's very subjective Drew. As far as we are aware, the only three unhappy players were Campo, Nolan and Speed....and Campo soon shut up when he was recalled.
The performance against Chelsea may simply have meant that the players still had a go on the day despite of everything else.
Yes, the question about players leaving was highly speculative but both Anelka and Diouf have made exit noises.
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Billy Bradshaw
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 12:53 pm |
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Drew wrote: Yes, the question about players leaving was highly speculative but both Anelka and Diouf have made exit noises.
I don't think they have just started making those noises........it's just that they are now shouting a little louder.
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Harry Genshaw
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 08:43 pm |
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If Jewell really doesnt fancy it anyone fancy Dave Jones or Joe Royle? 
They are no better or worse than most suggested and they'd both come cheaply.
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dickygreen
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 08:51 pm |
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Bolton must pay £1m for Coleman to leave Spain
Apparently we can have him if we give them a payout?
According to the mail
Bolton have held talks with Chris Coleman about becoming their next manager but it will cost about £1 million in compensation to sign him from Real Sociedad.
Wanderers chairman Phil Gartside met Coleman with the Spanish club's blessing after bookies' favourite Paul Jewell told Bolton he would not be interested in returning to football at the Reebok stadium.
Last edited on Sat Oct 20th, 2007 08:54 pm by dickygreen
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Drew
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 08:59 pm |
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If that is true then I would take him. I don't think he is likely to take us into Europe but I think he can get us out of the mess we are in and get us back in the top half. Can he keep players like Anelka?
Best of the bunch other than Jewell. Not that I know much.
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Harry Genshaw
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 09:06 pm |
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Drew wrote: If that is true then I would take him. I don't think he is likely to take us into Europe but I think he can get us out of the mess we are in and get us back in the top half. Can he keep players like Anelka?
Best of the bunch other than Jewell. Not that I know much.
Id sooner put the £1million towards a decent centre back in January. How well is Coleman doing in Spain by the way?
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Cowdrill
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 09:53 pm |
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| Real Sociedad are mid table in spanish divison 2
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Woody
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 10:00 pm |
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| Coleman is a better option than Bruce and Megson. He seemed to know how to keep Fulham in the Premiership without really excelling. Not brilliant, but better than other names.
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 10:25 pm |
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Harry Genshaw wrote: If Jewell really doesnt fancy it anyone fancy Dave Jones or Joe Royle?
They are no better or worse than most suggested and they'd both come cheaply.
Dave Jones with Graham Rix as his assistant. Thats my daughter going nowhere near the Reebok..........................
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 10:39 pm |
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Salford White wrote: Harry Genshaw wrote: If Jewell really doesnt fancy it anyone fancy Dave Jones or Joe Royle?
They are no better or worse than most suggested and they'd both come cheaply.
Dave Jones with Graham Rix as his assistant. Thats my daughter going nowhere near the Reebok..........................
And the sickest post of the year goes to............... 
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le god
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 10:43 pm |
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Apparently Megson refused to do any post match interviews.
I hope that isn't a sign of anything.
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Woody
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 10:57 pm |
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le god
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Posted: Sat Oct 20th, 2007 11:05 pm |
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| God do i have a horrible feeling about Megson being appointed.
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Mich Caine
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Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 07:44 am |
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dickygreen wrote: Bolton must pay £1m for Coleman to leave Spain
Apparently we can have him if we give them a payout?
According to the mail
Bolton have held talks with Chris Coleman about becoming their next manager but it will cost about £1 million in compensation to sign him from Real Sociedad.
Wanderers chairman Phil Gartside met Coleman with the Spanish club's blessing after bookies' favourite Paul Jewell told Bolton he would not be interested in returning to football at the Reebok stadium.
This story is also in the Sunday Mirror today. I reckon Coleman is now a cert to be our new manager. May check the odds on this, got to be worth a bet.
I think Jewell turned the job down definitely. There is no way we wouldn't have approached him.
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Drew
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Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 08:01 am |
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Mich Caine wrote: dickygreen wrote: Bolton must pay £1m for Coleman to leave Spain
Apparently we can have him if we give them a payout?
According to the mail
Bolton have held talks with Chris Coleman about becoming their next manager but it will cost about £1 million in compensation to sign him from Real Sociedad.
Wanderers chairman Phil Gartside met Coleman with the Spanish club's blessing after bookies' favourite Paul Jewell told Bolton he would not be interested in returning to football at the Reebok stadium.
This story is also in the Sunday Mirror today. I reckon Coleman is now a cert to be our new manager. May check the odds on this, got to be worth a bet.
I think Jewell turned the job down definitely. There is no way we wouldn't have approached him.
If we believed everything in the papers then Stelios has been playing for Man City for hte last 3 seasons - he probably wishes he was now.
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Mich Caine
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Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 11:46 am |
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All the movement in the market is on Megson now. Ladbrokes have him at 2/1, betfair have him even shorter than that.
Is there anyone here who wants him? I don't think he is dreadful by any means, he did do really well at Stockport and 2 promotions with West Brom. Its his time at Forest that puts negatives in boxes for me, I mean a big club like Forest in league 1 and cannot get them promoted looks very poor. But a half decent start at Leicester.
What are people's thoughts on him?
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melbourne dave
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Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 11:52 am |
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He is not exactly a house hold name in the land of oz 
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Posted: Sun Oct 21st, 2007 11:59 am |
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didnt gartside threaten to report newcastle the first time they tried to 'tap-up' Sam allarydce?
different story now aint it?
virtually every manager he wants is already employed by other clubs already yet it seems to make not one jot of difference! :what:
two faced git!
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