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BWSC
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Posted: Wed Jul 14th, 2010 10:20 pm |
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Hi, please let me introduce myself, my name is Matthew Jones, I’m an ardent Bolton Wanderers supporter who feels a little disenfranchised from the club these days, I know we have bwsa, but having attended a couple of meetings and functions over the years, I feel that this group is out dated and doesn’t represent today’s average supporter, I know we have all these excellent forums and message boards but we don’t have a direct link or voice with the club .
I think this actually puts us at a disadvantage to supporters of other clubs, as we don’t have a say in how our club is run !
So with this in mind I and a couple of other die hard wanderers have decided to start our own supporters club, one that will be proactive and that intends to take over as the official voice of BWFC supporters,
We intend to hold a public meeting before the start of the season and would encourage anybody who would like to get involved in any capacity to sign up.
http://www.bwfcsc.co.uk
PS We are not another forum or messageboard but hope to utilize all the wanderers fan sites
thanks, matt
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bdi
Member
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Posted: Wed Jul 14th, 2010 10:39 pm |
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BWSC wrote: Hi, please let me introduce myself, my name is Matthew Jones, I’m an ardent Bolton Wanderers supporter who feels a little disenfranchised from the club these days, I know we have bwsa, but having attended a couple of meetings and functions over the years, I feel that this group is out dated and doesn’t represent today’s average supporter, I know we have all these excellent forums and message boards but we don’t have a direct link or voice with the club .
I think this actually puts us at a disadvantage to supporters of other clubs, as we don’t have a say in how our club is run !
So with this in mind I and a couple of other die hard wanderers have decided to start our own supporters club, one that will be proactive and that intends to take over as the official voice of BWFC supporters,
We intend to hold a public meeting before the start of the season and would encourage anybody who would like to get involved in any capacity to sign up.
http://www.bwfcsc.co.uk
PS We are not another forum or messageboard but hope to utilize all the wanderers fan sites
thanks, matt
"Oops" Reminiscent of "Bullet."... So IMO that should give you, my views. If a regular Supporter, then you should know my opinions.
Please try other Forums...
I have always tried to be fair and honest. IMO, Poaching (Unless for Ego's), is a No!!! No!!!
Please go back to what you do best... That is stick to your own Forum...
____________________
"Success is an Enemy to the Loser of the Day".
"The Reebok is My Church"
"Wanderers is my Religion".
(After 61 years, you either have Bolton inside you, or you start supporting another Team)... Since I haven't started supporting another Team, tells my side of the story).
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Jamm
606 Veteran
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Posted: Wed Jul 14th, 2010 11:24 pm |
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I agree with what you say about the official supporters association, I used to be a member a good few years back and things were mickey mouse even then.
However, there are at least 2 official supporters clubs that I know of, yours will just be one of the many unofficial clubs/forums out there, another one for the club to ignore, unfortunately... I mean, what do you actually hope to achieve and how?
The club isn't obliged to recognise you, they already have the official supporters association and the official disabled supporters association...
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Billy Bradshaw
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Posted: Thu Jul 15th, 2010 06:18 am |
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If the stats are true on your website, I'm really surprised that the official sc has a continuous membership of only 60? But I'm not surprised if they are not seen to be representative of the typical fan any more. Such 'institutions' tend to stay the same and never change as the years go by.
As I see it, you have two options: You can push ahead and try and be the unofficial supporters club, or you can try (should you get a lot of interest) and go for a merger with the official supporters club. That would be difficult, since the BWSA guys may not take kindly to your overtures.
A few questions:
1. What type of supporters club do you want to be? If you're a campaigning club, that may not go down well with the club. Putting fans concerns over the half time refreshments is one thing. Complaining to them about a player or anything on the pitch may not be a good idea?
2. What is your USP (unique selling point)? You may be new, but what are you going to do differently and why? Would a fan switch to your sc and see any difference?
3. What is it that the official club does that isn't representative of the typical supporter any more?
4. Do you have ambitions to become the official supporters club?
5. What other incentives can you offer a fan? You will have no club backing, so what can you offer fans to tempt them to join?
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The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark.
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Frankie
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Posted: Thu Jul 15th, 2010 08:49 am |
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bdi wrote: BWSC wrote: Hi, please let me introduce myself, my name is Matthew Jones, I’m an ardent Bolton Wanderers supporter who feels a little disenfranchised from the club these days, I know we have bwsa, but having attended a couple of meetings and functions over the years, I feel that this group is out dated and doesn’t represent today’s average supporter, I know we have all these excellent forums and message boards but we don’t have a direct link or voice with the club .
I think this actually puts us at a disadvantage to supporters of other clubs, as we don’t have a say in how our club is run !
So with this in mind I and a couple of other die hard wanderers have decided to start our own supporters club, one that will be proactive and that intends to take over as the official voice of BWFC supporters,
We intend to hold a public meeting before the start of the season and would encourage anybody who would like to get involved in any capacity to sign up.
http://www.bwfcsc.co.uk
PS We are not another forum or messageboard but hope to utilize all the wanderers fan sites
thanks, matt
"Oops" Reminiscent of "Bullet."... So IMO that should give you, my views. If a regular Supporter, then you should know my opinions.
Please try other Forums...
I have always tried to be fair and honest. IMO, Poaching (Unless for Ego's), is a No!!! No!!!
Please go back to what you do best... That is stick to your own Forum...
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White Steel
Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 15th, 2010 12:46 pm |
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I agree with Billy. There's no point setting up a "sack the board" group. Part of the reason I suspect BWSA became so unpopular is it wasn't always pushing for "sack Megson" and "spend more money" - instead focusing on boring things like the cleanliness of toilets, use of the Asda car park etc. But that's what an official supporters club is for.
So the other thing I'd want to know is on what issues you think BWSA is a let-down and why you could do better.
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Catte Strophe
606 Veteran
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Posted: Thu Jul 15th, 2010 02:48 pm |
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Sprout wrote: I agree with Billy. There's no point setting up a "sack the board" group. Part of the reason I suspect BWSA became so unpopular is it wasn't always pushing for "sack he-who-shall-not-be-named" and "spend more money" - instead focusing on boring things like the cleanliness of toilets, use of the Asda car park etc. But that's what an official supporters club is for.
So the other thing I'd want to know is on what issues you think BWSA is a let-down and why you could do better.
To be fair BWSA has to follow the party line, or else they will not be allowed to meet on the premises and I suspect they get a whisper in their collective ears what to concentrate on.
The fact that BWSA chose not to get involved getting rid of "He-who-shall-not be-named" (see you got me doing it now) was the beginning of the end and i think they will reflect on the glory days when they had 60 members..
Now if you can arrange your meetings in the Cafe Nero we can more or less guarantee you one member, but be aware he is a right member...
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Does anyone remember the John Ritson strike at Mansfield ? I doubt even Ali Al-Habsi would have got a hand on that one...
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Billy Bradshaw
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Posted: Thu Jul 15th, 2010 03:05 pm |
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| I don't think an 'official supporters club' should be rocking the boat. Yes, they should represent the fans and voice any concerns (on any matters) to the board, but they should never be actively campaigning against the board or in conflict with them.
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The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark.
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Jamm
606 Veteran
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Posted: Thu Jul 15th, 2010 03:34 pm |
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BWSA never used to meet at the Reebok... in fact it was better when they didn't coz the drinks were cheaper elsewhere!
Anyway, they used to be guaranteed a bwfc player to grill at every meeting...
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BWSC
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Posted: Thu Jul 15th, 2010 06:25 pm |
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"I think there's three really good reasons to have a supporters club. Firstly it's the best way for the club and the fans to talk to eachother. If the fans would like to see something change (the style of stewarding, a statue of Nat, the price of pies etc) then a large and committed supporters association would have the ear of the club much more than individual fans would.
By the same token, the club would be able to test out ideas. Do supporters really want free travel to Sunderland? Or would they rather the money was invested in subsidising the ale in the fanzone? What about the free scarves initiative? The club could let the fans know about stuff like this through the fans' organisation in a way they can't elsewhere.
The second major reason to have an independent supporters association is if things go wrong. Most fans are very happy with the way the club is run by Messers Gartside and Duckworth. But after the reorganisation of shares a few years ago Eddie Davis owns the whole thing, lock stock and stadium. If things went wrong for his business and he lost his fortune, or even if he decided to pull out, the club would be in deep financial trouble.
If we end up in this situation (God forbid) like many others have done, it will be essential to have a supporters association to liase with administrators and ensure the long term health of the club. In times of crisis, the voice of the fans needs to be strong and united - it's better to have this before any crisis occurs.
Third and final... We all know the atmosphere at the ground isn't great and the club's relationship with the fans has suffered in recent years. An active supporters association would be a good way of energising the fans, and coming up with initiatives to create a better atmosphere. In addition, we'd be looking to have our meetings/functions in Horwich, Bolton, Farnworth and anywhere else where there are large pockets of wanderers fans.
There's also a lot of fun to be had from meeting up together and maybe getting ex-players to come and talk to us etc."
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Jamm
606 Veteran
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Posted: Thu Jul 15th, 2010 07:38 pm |
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Erm... there 'is' already a supporters club/active supporters association... in fact, at least 2 that I know of...
AFAIK, the BWSA is indie (similarly the BWDSA), it just happens to be recognised by the club and allowed to have meetings at the Reebok... maybe you should get involved with the committee, last time I looked they welcomed new members...
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bdi
Member
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Posted: Thu Jul 15th, 2010 11:20 pm |
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IMO, There should not be an Officia BWFC Forum. e.g. BWSA. I believe there should be a group, which are from different Forums, that attend meetings to discuss views aired on each individual forums.
Example only... Lets say we have some group called, lets call it BWFC (Bolton Wanderers Forum Club)...Okay that is tongue in cheek...
Whatever this group of people who attend these meetings, would be 2 from each Forum, lets even include 2 from the 606ers.
So now we would have 2 people from the likes of BWSA, BWSC, BB, Burnden Aces, Manny Road, 606ers, Might only get 1 from Cafe Nero. Lol etc etc etc...
This would give a complete cross section of views posted by supporters, regarding any issues, from toilets, pre and half-time entertainment, cleanliness, price of pies, beer, stewarding, etc and the thoughts of how Bolton see the future, and the plans put in place to achieve these goals.
These 2 people, wouldn't have to be the same at each meeting, otherwise one factor, would try and take complete control. The meeting should be chaired by a member from a different forum, each meeting.
The individuals that do attend, could then put their findings, on their own individual Forums, in what they feel where the main outcomes at each meeting.
In this way, the majority of supporteers, would know what is happening.
As said... These are my opinions, and my opinions are only from the South, who wouldn't be able to attend. At the same time, I do not visit other forums, so would never ever find out what was the outcome of these meetings are, unless someone from BB attended.
I am not the only one, who lives a long way from "The Reebok", so suppose, and hope that others feel the same. I have no idea...
____________________
"Success is an Enemy to the Loser of the Day".
"The Reebok is My Church"
"Wanderers is my Religion".
(After 61 years, you either have Bolton inside you, or you start supporting another Team)... Since I haven't started supporting another Team, tells my side of the story).
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TerryInChorley
Member
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Posted: Fri Jul 16th, 2010 10:45 am |
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| Don't see the point of any sort of supporters club to be honest, it will always be too insignificant in member numbers to hold any influence over any club. Even if by some miracle you got 1,000 members signed up and campaigning on certain issues connected with BWFC, the club can always turn round and say that there are 20,000-25,000 who still turn up at games week in week out, and who aren't associated with any supporters club, and by definition (ie they bought tickets) they are happy with things. The only protest I believe in, as an individual, if things at the club were going badly, would be to stay away from games, I don't need some unrepresentaive supporters association in order to make my protest. Professional football clubs are not democracies run by pressure groups, they are businesses run by hard headed businessmen, and they would only sit up and take notice if attendances and sales of club merchandise slumped. Look at what a total farce this United Supporters for Change thing is, they all wear their silly green and yellow scarves, whilst still handing over £50 a ticket each home game to the Glazer family. United get 75,000 to every home game, and if the ground was big enough they'd probably get 150,000, the only message that is sending to the Glazers is that most fans don't give a toss about club politics. Last edited on Fri Jul 16th, 2010 10:47 am by TerryInChorley
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White Steel
Member
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Posted: Fri Jul 16th, 2010 10:54 am |
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BWSC wrote: "I think there's three really good reasons to have a supporters club. Firstly it's the best way for the club and the fans to talk to eachother. If the fans would like to see something change (the style of stewarding, a statue of Nat, the price of pies etc) then a large and committed supporters association would have the ear of the club much more than individual fans would.
By the same token, the club would be able to test out ideas. Do supporters really want free travel to Sunderland? Or would they rather the money was invested in subsidising the ale in the fanzone? What about the free scarves initiative? The club could let the fans know about stuff like this through the fans' organisation in a way they can't elsewhere."
As far as I know that's what BWSA does. The low membership is an issue but...
BWSC wrote: "The second major reason to have an independent supporters association is if things go wrong. Most fans are very happy with the way the club is run by Messers Gartside and Duckworth. But after the reorganisation of shares a few years ago Eddie Davis owns the whole thing, lock stock and stadium. If things went wrong for his business and he lost his fortune, or even if he decided to pull out, the club would be in deep financial trouble.
If we end up in this situation (God forbid) like many others have done, it will be essential to have a supporters association to liase with administrators and ensure the long term health of the club. In times of crisis, the voice of the fans needs to be strong and united - it's better to have this before any crisis occurs."
...this is a no-go area for any supporters' club that wants to have influence. Unfortunately, it's this issue (and Megson) that has led to the reduction in membership of BWSA.
If you're really serious about the issues (and it sounds like you are) then the best bet is to joint BWSA and lobby to get yourself on the board. Change from the inside is far more constructive than picking a fight.
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BWSC
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Posted: Sun Jul 18th, 2010 11:19 pm |
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Just reminding you all to register your interest or tell your friends about us.
we need to double the current members to take it on to the next level
thanx
Matt
http://www.bwfcsc.co.uk
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Jamm
606 Veteran
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Posted: Mon Jul 19th, 2010 08:21 am |
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Not really taking things on board or responding to anyone's issues, are you Matt?
You'll go far...
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Billy Bradshaw
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Posted: Mon Jul 19th, 2010 09:06 am |
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Jamm wrote: Not really taking things on board or responding to anyone's issues, are you Matt?
You'll go far...
Sounds to me like the new supporters group is being set up with the intention being confrontational with the club and other supporters groups? Regarding Matthew's comments, I don't see where a supporters club comes into discussions with administrators and what part a supporters club can play in ensuring the long-term health of the club? I don't see many supporters clubs saving other clubs and even the groups around the best supported club in the world (Man U) are realising taking over or saving a club isn't that simple.
I see difficulties in getting a new SC recognised by the club, certainly as the official SC. BWSA membership may have waned over the years and perhaps their leadership isn't what it should be? I don't know......I'm just playing devil's advocate here. But BWSA has a long-standing relationship with the club. The foundations are there and they should be built on.
Matthew talks about feeling let down by the official club, but he doesn't say if he and his friends have raised their concerns with BWSA? Have they sat at the meetings they've attended and walked out hacked off, or have they raised their issues at the meetings? If they do that, and their concerns strike a chord with others, they'll have a platform for reform and may be able to get a place at the top table of BWSA.
But all I see and read so far, is the usual bluster 'a la Bullet'.
____________________
The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark.
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White Steel
Member
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Posted: Mon Jul 19th, 2010 09:48 am |
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Billy Bradshaw wrote: But all I see and read so far, is the usual bluster 'a la Bullet'.
At least Bullet had the bluster and a set agenda. I'm not sure this has any purpose other than to scratch an itch that is BWSA.
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Jamm
606 Veteran
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Posted: Mon Jul 19th, 2010 10:08 am |
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If the 30 people currently signed up on BWSC actually joined up to BWSA then, wow, the numbers would swell to 90... I just think it would make more sense to get bums on seats at BWSA and start to make changes there coz at least they already have the relationship with the club...
Another thing. BWSA membership, are we talking 60 members paid up in total or just an average of 60 people going to the meetings? Coz there was always more members than folk at the meetings...
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Billy Bradshaw
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Posted: Mon Jul 19th, 2010 10:28 am |
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Jamm wrote: If the 30 people currently signed up on BWSC actually joined up to BWSA then, wow, the numbers would swell to 90... I just think it would make more sense to get bums on seats at BWSA and start to make changes there coz at least they already have the relationship with the club...
Another thing. BWSA membership, are we talking 60 members paid up in total or just an average of 60 people going to the meetings? Coz there was always more members than folk at the meetings...
....and if a new group increases the active membership by around 50%, they deserve a seat at the table, which means they will have a mandate to change things.
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The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark.
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Jamm
606 Veteran
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Posted: Mon Jul 19th, 2010 11:02 am |
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Billy Bradshaw wrote: Jamm wrote: If the 30 people currently signed up on BWSC actually joined up to BWSA then, wow, the numbers would swell to 90... I just think it would make more sense to get bums on seats at BWSA and start to make changes there coz at least they already have the relationship with the club...
Another thing. BWSA membership, are we talking 60 members paid up in total or just an average of 60 people going to the meetings? Coz there was always more members than folk at the meetings...
....and if a new group increases the active membership by around 50%, they deserve a seat at the table, which means they will have a mandate to change things.
Possibly, but I dunno if that's how BWSA operates... they already have a number of affiliated clubs along with rules for becoming affiliated (http://www.voiceofbolton.com/supporters-association)
I was just thinking Matt could actually get these bods down to a few BWSA socials and share his feelings down there, do a bit of palm greasing and work his way onto the board from there...
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Bolton Bolton
Member
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Posted: Mon Jul 19th, 2010 05:24 pm |
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Sprout wrote: Billy Bradshaw wrote: But all I see and read so far, is the usual bluster 'a la Bullet'.
At least Bullet had the bluster and a set agenda. I'm not sure this has any purpose other than to scratch an itch that is BWSA.
Welcome back Bullet 
Should have kept the old name and agenda....i dont think this main stream agenda is for you.
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Billy Bradshaw
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Posted: Mon Jul 19th, 2010 05:45 pm |
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| Can't be Bullet. These guys have got a website.
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The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark.
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Bolton Bolton
Member
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Posted: Mon Jul 19th, 2010 06:21 pm |
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Maybe they've finaly got round to building it
If its not Bullet and his crew, its about time he came back, agree or disagree with him, it got people on the forum
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bdi
Member
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Posted: Mon Jul 19th, 2010 07:22 pm |
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Billy Bradshaw wrote: Can't be Bullet. These guys have got a website.
Is it linked to "Cafe Nero" though...Lol
Personally I am not into politics of any kind, whether it be regarding a Football Club or the Death sentence. Personal preferences, I keep to myself...
Nowt changes, and if it does, it tends to be for the worse, not the better.
I believe that the Club I support, is running a tight ship. They know the problems better than us, and believe they will try and sort it out. Rocking the boat doesn't help... although it can make waves, and some of them waves are not in the best interest for all supporters.
Anyone who want to try and improve anything at any Club, I give my blessing... Just hope that they don't ruin it for others. Relationships with Football Clubs and Supporters can take years to build, and weeks to finish...
____________________
"Success is an Enemy to the Loser of the Day".
"The Reebok is My Church"
"Wanderers is my Religion".
(After 61 years, you either have Bolton inside you, or you start supporting another Team)... Since I haven't started supporting another Team, tells my side of the story).
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BWSC
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Posted: Mon Jul 19th, 2010 09:10 pm |
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Your spot on bdi, as for the bwsa, we have tried to arrange a meeting with the committee who have ducked and dived to avoid meeting us, they know what we're about and what we want to achieve as we have made contact with Gareth (chairman) on numerous occasions, but they’re very reluctant to relinquish their place at the 'top table' and why should they, the club does all their work for them whilst they get all the perks that go with it, like reserve seating at the front for fan forums, first dibs at gifted merchandise the club donate for prizes, and of course the plush executive box overlooking the pitch with coffee and quiche for their meetings !
Ofcourse we’d prefer to join bwsa and change it from within, but its impossible to get a foot in,
this movement hasn’t just sprung up, its been ongoing for the last 4 months, we only decided to go it alone when the BWSA finally stood us up again last week and we realised we wasn’t going to get anywhere with them !
As for their membership, they have 44 fully paid up members with about 7 or 8 attending meetings and membership is currently suspended, so you can’t join now even if you wanted
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bdi
Member
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Posted: Mon Jul 19th, 2010 10:15 pm |
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BWSC wrote: Your spot on bdi, as for the bwsa, we have tried to arrange a meeting with the committee who have ducked and dived to avoid meeting us, they know what we're about and what we want to achieve as we have made contact with Gareth (chairman) on numerous occasions, but they’re very reluctant to relinquish their place at the 'top table' and why should they, the club does all their work for them whilst they get all the perks that go with it, like reserve seating at the front for fan forums, first dibs at gifted merchandise the club donate for prizes, and of course the plush executive box overlooking the pitch with coffee and quiche for their meetings !
Ofcourse we’d prefer to join bwsa and change it from within, but its impossible to get a foot in,
this movement hasn’t just sprung up, its been ongoing for the last 4 months, we only decided to go it alone when the BWSA finally stood us up again last week and we realised we wasn’t going to get anywhere with them !
As for their membership, they have 44 fully paid up members with about 7 or 8 attending meetings and membership is currently suspended, so you can’t join now even if you wanted
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Okay... Looks like this is something I will have to try and sort out for you. 
"I do not have any Power", so can't say anything.
Please Have "Faith", or should that be under the Music Thread.... Lol
Like Phil Ochs... once a rebel, always a rebel....
Nowadays at my age, I am too old to change...
____________________
"Success is an Enemy to the Loser of the Day".
"The Reebok is My Church"
"Wanderers is my Religion".
(After 61 years, you either have Bolton inside you, or you start supporting another Team)... Since I haven't started supporting another Team, tells my side of the story).
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Jamm
606 Veteran
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Posted: Mon Jul 19th, 2010 10:35 pm |
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BWSC wrote: why should they, the club does all their work for them .
What work does the club do for them? Have you seen the number of people on the actual committee? Initially it made me think "there's 3 people doing one member's job, there..." but another way of looking at it is that there's a shed load of work that needs doing between a number of volunteers who don't do that sort of thing full-time...
BWSC wrote: they get all the perks that go with it, like reserve seating at the front for fan forums, first dibs at gifted merchandise the club donate for prizes, and of course the plush executive box overlooking the pitch with coffee and quiche for their meetings !.
You're taking the mickey, right? The BWSA and the Disabled Supporters Association were instrumental in getting front row seating for disabled fans, is this what you're meaning?
Also, who gives a monkeys were the meetings are held? What point is there in overlooking the pitch when there's no match on?
I actually preferred it when they still held their meetings at the social club near Morrison's on Chorley Old Road - the drinks were cheaper for starters! 44 fully paid up members to the BWSA, but how many are signed up as part of the affiliated clubs?
Don't get me wrong, I think the BWSA has been toothless for a long time, but I also think groups going at it for the wrong reason are just as bad... the BWSA is NOT untouchable, committee members should have to be voted in at AGM's so, get enough of your own people to be members and vote OR actually prove your worth and you can get a foot in there...
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BWSC
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Posted: Mon Jul 19th, 2010 11:07 pm |
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yes I was taking the mickey, thats my point !
as for the committee, its in there constitution to not allow more than 2 new committee members in any one year!!
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Jamm
606 Veteran
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Posted: Mon Jul 19th, 2010 11:12 pm |
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BWSC wrote: yes I was taking the mickey, thats my point !
as for the committee, its in there constitution to not allow more than 2 new committee members in any one year!!
It was a crap point, then
Also, I'm not even sure that can actually be put in any organisation's constitution... I've been a member of 3 organisations that involved committees and every member of those committees had to be voted back on every year... and these are much bigger organisations than BWSA... So, if true, it could be dodgy anyway but I dunno for sure...
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