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Woody
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 07:09 pm |
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Billy Bradshaw wrote:
Woody wrote: Regarding Klasnic, the only thing I don't agree with is the suggestion that we can't afford a super sub - we bloody can and he's an outstanding substitute. To put it in context, we can't afford a super-sub because super-subs often have to play full games because of injuries and suspensions. Klasnic over 90 minutes is as effective as a chocolate fireguard.
I agree. However, it's slightly dependent upon who we are up against. Let's not forget who got us through the 3rd and 4th rounds against Premier League opposition from a starting role. He can do a job against the poorer sides from a starting role but obviously he's not first choice.
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urquhs
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 07:13 pm |
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| The reason I stayed to the end is because I could think about the players coming over to no one except a tosser sticking two fingers up . Also I have never left a game early by choice .. I clapped the players who bothered to come over and waited til Owen went down .. I felt sick watching the fans filing out .. Throwing their cup memorabilia towards the pitch ..
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D1OUFY
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 07:31 pm |
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I lasted until about the 85th minute. The last time I walked out early was when we were being beat 5-0 against Coventry. And I'm one of the ones that have a go at people for leaving early. I genuinely couldn't stand another minute. Embarrassed. Fair play to Stoke. Their fans were very good. We had thousands of seats empty. I know after we went a couple down the atmosphere from us was always going to be quiet.
That said I was more embarrassed by the person wearing an EDL t-shirt on the coach.
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lee chung-okocha
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 07:35 pm |
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I stayed til the end, it was hard to do so, but I did.
There were plenty of reasons why we lost so badly yesterday which everyone has pointed out on here, but I still fail to understand how our players weren't fired up for the second half?
There's no bigger indicator to get stuck in and play with pride than being 3-0 down at half time.
It was up to both OC and SKD to motivate the team at HT. They either did and the rest of the players couldn't care less, or they just didn't try and push the team on at all.
OC has done plenty right this season and has been fantastic, he got it completely wrong yesterday.
That was my first trip to Wembley and I it was very dissapointing.
But being a Bolton supporter, I will support the team vs Arsenal as much as I would've done if WE had won 5-0 against Stoke.
Ah well.
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D1OUFY
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 07:47 pm |
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"Arsenal tickets selling fast".
Really?
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Mark08
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 07:52 pm |
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urquhs wrote:
The reason I stayed to the end is because I could think about the players coming over to no one except a tosser sticking two fingers up . Also I have never left a game early by choice .. I clapped the players who bothered to come over and waited til Owen went down .. I felt sick watching the fans filing out .. Throwing their cup memorabilia towards the pitch ..
It's very noble of you thinking about the players, it's just a shame they didn't afford us the same respect and put a bit more effort in.
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Harry Genshaw
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 07:54 pm |
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I dont buy this 'Owen got it wrong' nonsense
We're all experts with the benefit of hindsight. The team he picked on a good day could have won that match. The blame lies firmly with the players who all had a bad day together.
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Cowdrill
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 07:56 pm |
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i agree H
i think the whole Elmander thing was a mistake in hindsight
and Klasnic shouldnt have started
but thats no excuse
they went out onto that pitch like theyd never seen a bloody football before
let it go though i say
its been a fantastic season beyond all expectations
Sunday was awful - but its gone
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D1OUFY
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 07:58 pm |
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Cowdrill wrote:
Sunday was awful - but its gone
I hope so. Games like that can finish a season. Thank god we have been good for the majority and picked up enough points. If we were on the brink that performance could have relegated us.
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Harry Genshaw
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 08:04 pm |
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Aye - I think i'm nearly over it now, or I will be in another day or so.
I would have killed for a top 10 finish and a decent cup run last August so all told it's been great this season - but yesterday was still the worst I have ever felt in over 35 years of following em.
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le god
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 08:06 pm |
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| A top 10 finish is still a few good performances away im afraid so i wouldn't be putting that one in the books.
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Harry Genshaw
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 08:09 pm |
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le god wrote: A top 10 finish is still a few good performances away im afraid so i wouldn't be putting that one in the books.
True, but we are safe 
Aren't we? 
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Cowdrill
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 08:10 pm |
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for a club in 90+ million of debt , that fielded only half a subs bench on more than one occasion..
just finishing 4th from bottom would have been brilliant
top half and a fa cup semi is frankly ridiculous!
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le god
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 08:12 pm |
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Harry Genshaw wrote:
le god wrote: A top 10 finish is still a few good performances away im afraid so i wouldn't be putting that one in the books.
True, but we are safe
Aren't we?
Even i think we're safe so it would take some meltdown now.
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stokesy
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 08:15 pm |
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| Once a White - Always a White!
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Simply Sam
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 08:42 pm |
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stokesy wrote:
Once a White - Always a White!
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Harry Genshaw
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 08:45 pm |
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stokesy wrote: Once a White - Always a White!
True. Sad but true 
Any chance you could change your user name - it's just too painful 
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If my enemy was bigger than my apathy, I could have won
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Salford White
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 08:50 pm |
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I'm not sure i agree about the hindsight thing Harry. You know what you're going to get with Stoke, 10 men behind the ball and double marking on your target men. We tried to go 442 against that which was suicide and we were swamped from the 3 rd minute. Why he didnt change it then is beyond me, but he didn't.
We got lazy and the players have to ask themselves why they couldnt' play to feet and why the lazy ball over the top to Davies was played time and time again despite the fact that he won none of them and wouldn't have got anything from Webb all afternoon.
I thought only Elmo and Cahill came out with any credit at all, the rest just looked lost, overawed and confused for 90 minutes.
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stokesy
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 08:51 pm |
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Harry Genshaw wrote: stokesy wrote: Once a White - Always a White!
True. Sad but true
Any chance you could change your user name - it's just too painful
Oi ! Salford White asked me to do that too. He now knows why I can't change it and laughed. Sorry if it pains you but I can't help what's on my marriage certificate!!
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aniram
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 09:02 pm |
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Harry Genshaw wrote: I dont buy this 'Owen got it wrong' nonsense
We're all experts with the benefit of hindsight. The team he picked on a good day could have won that match. The blame lies firmly with the players who all had a bad day together.
I'm not an expert but hindsight wasn't necessary. I dont know why I see it differently to all of you, but as soon as they announced the team I told my husband we would be lucky to win with that team.
On second thoughts, maybe I would make a good expert.
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Tricky Trevor
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 09:13 pm |
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stokesy wrote: Harry Genshaw wrote: stokesy wrote: Once a White - Always a White!
True. Sad but true
Any chance you could change your user name - it's just too painful
Oi! Salford White asked me to do that too. He now knows why I can't change it and laughed. Sorry if it pains you but I can't help what's on my marriage certificate!!
Divorce. It's the only option.
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Harry Genshaw
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 09:16 pm |
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Salford White wrote: I'm not sure i agree about the hindsight thing Harry. You know what you're going to get with Stoke, 10 men behind the ball and double marking on your target men. We tried to go 442 against that which was suicide and we were swamped from the 3 rd minute. Why he didnt change it then is beyond me, but he didn't.
We got lazy and the players have to ask themselves why they couldnt' play to feet and why the lazy ball over the top to Davies was played time and time again despite the fact that he won none of them and wouldn't have got anything from Webb all afternoon.
I thought only Elmo and Cahill came out with any credit at all, the rest just looked lost, overawed and confused for 90 minutes.
But if he'd changed his tactics to counter Stoke, folk on here would have said why are we changing our system against a side lower in the league than us?
After the calamitous 1st goal, they worked like trojans to close down any space in midfield - at times playing a 4-5-1 like we did under Sam - so we couldn't pass our way through them - hence the long ball which was just as useless.
Ultimately though, they played like a bunch of to55ers and I blame them. Not Coyle.
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Cowdrill
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 09:44 pm |
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It reminded me a bit of the start of the carling cup final against Boro
only about 50 times worse
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urquhs
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 09:58 pm |
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| Don't blame coyle.. look back at the thread pre match . none of us could decide the team.. his only mistake was not changing it .
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urquhs
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 09:58 pm |
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| Don't blame coyle.. look back at the thread pre match . none of us could decide the team.. his only mistake was not changing it .
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bdi
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 10:33 pm |
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Travelled back from Wembley Park with 2 Stoke City Fans sat in front of us. They were as shocked as me and Mr Man. They thought their highlight of their season was getting to the Semi-Final, and no further, plus avoiding relegation.
Now they have every possiblity of being in Europe next season.
Although I stayed the 90 minutes, I left the ground drained of all emotions whatsoever. Although the Stadium looks good when you walk out of Wembley Park, I do not rate the National Stadium. Whether that was through lack of atmosphere in the Bolton end of the ground, especially after the first goal was scored, I honestly do not know.
So at the moment cannot give any opinions regarding Wembley. Hopefully next season, will be able to give a better opinion...
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"Success is an Enemy to the Loser of the Day".
"The Reebok is My Church"
"Wanderers is my Religion".
(After 61 years, you either have Bolton inside you, or you start supporting another Team)... Since I haven't started supporting another Team, tells my side of the story).
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cardiffwhite
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 10:40 pm |
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Just to add (quite) a few thoughts of my own.
Us: Very poor all round. Curiously for a team that got beat 5-0 I thought our best players were Cahill, Knight and Jussi. I agree that Knight's distribution is poor, but he's a defender who defends - it should not be up to him to create our chances. Mark Davies also did OK when he came on and with hindsight should probably have started.
One the negative side, the full backs were awful - I feel sorry for Robinson who has almost managed to turn popular opinion around, but yesterday was just a nightmare for him.
Muamba was a huge let down. We all know he can't pass or shoot well, but normally he is so athletic and a good tackler - yesterday he was slow and cumbersome - had someone spiked his drink?
Elmander had a shocker - maybe it was a reaction to everyone else lumping it forward to Davies all the time, but he seemed to think he could just run straight at Stoke and they would get out of his way - guess what? they didn't.
Petrov was really poor, he was the one who seemed to get the space but continually failed to use it and showed a bad attitude in failing to track back afterwards.
Kevin Davies got nothing all afternoon, although it did seem to be that everytime he won the ball a foul was given, every time he lost it the challenge was fair.
Lee, Klasnic, Taylor and Moreno just didn't seem to get the chance to get involved in the game. I was particularly frustrated that Lee wasn't given more of the ball as I think he is a real star and could have been our matchwinner.
Them: First of all I must say that second half they were brilliant, no doubt about it. They passed it round well, KEPT POSSESSION (why can't we try this?) and had a real purpose. Everything we didn't expect from them!
Having said that, I must add that I though they started quite poorly and almost like an American football team moving from one set piece to the next.
I have to say that I think they got lucky at the start with their first 2 goals, one an awful mistake by both Robinon and (in my opinion) Elmander, who made a bad situation worse. True, Etherington finished well but they hardly created the goal did they? The second was even worse, a miss-hit long range shot that trundled along right into the corner - again a goal that just arrived for them without any effort or creative skill on their part.
After that, the biggest disappointment for me was our total failure to react to the situation and, unsurprisingly Stoke's confidence soared so that they started to play very well - in truth we could have lost 7 or 8 by the end.
Ref: It did seem that we didn't get our share of decisions, particulalry early Huth/Davies and Jones/Knight challenges, but overall we can't blame him. I must admit I don't recall the 'penalty' claim at 0-0, so I can't criticise him for that. From where I sat it did look like Petrov was fouled for their third goal, and Jones was in front of Robinson for the 4th so I was expecting to see an offside flag. If he wasn't offside (and I guess that he wasn't as no-one has mentioned it) then Robinson has a hell of a lot of explaining to do.
Fans: It did seem really notable how many Wanderers fans were legless at 2:30, compared to Stoke fans. It seems as though they'd come for the game, we'd come for a pi$$ up.
Arriving early for my first visit to the new Wembley, I walked round the whole stadium and it did seem that Wanderers fans were very confident and Stoke fans very quiet - all the singing outside was by Whites fans - perhaps the beer had an effect, or maybe the Stoke fans were saving themselves for the match. I'm pleased to say that I did meet some very nice Wanderers fans before and after the game and most took the crushing defeat in good humour - fair play to the Stoke fans at Wembley Stadium Station too who could have rubbed our noses in it but were very civil. Good luck to them, its always nice to see a 'smaller' club having a share of success.
The future: A big job for OC. This could take some getting over and I fear we may have a hangover from it. Over the summer I expect Cahill and Elmander to go. I'd be happy to see the back of Petrov too. We must hold on to Lee and Holden. Priority signings would be a goalscoring centre forward (a cheap Sturridge - maybe Maynard from Bristol City?) and 2 full backs. I also think we may have to consider making Al Habsi our first choice - however much we all love Jussi.
An awful, awful day for us all, but it doesn't make us a crap team overnight.
Sorry for rambling on so long - my psychiatrist said it would be cathartic!
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"Once when Bolton's Icelandic defender Gudni Bergsson got the ball 40 yards out from Barnsley's goal Lars yelled "Shoot, Shoot!".
But then Bergsson did shoot, from 40 yards, straight into the net. Lars shut up."
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aniram
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 11:17 pm |
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Don't think we will lose Stu Holden for next season as he seems central to our summer money spinner. We appear to have quite a following over there thanks to him, this quote is from the press conference announcing our game against Holdens former club Houston Dynamo's
“We’re very excited and happy to play against a team from the English Premier League,” Kinnear said. “Everybody knows more about Bolton since Stuart went over there, but also this is an incredible season for them, and they also have great individual players. I can’t wait for us to step on the field against this kind of international competition.”
Good to watch something positive after doom and gloom since yesterday!
Interview on
http://www.stuholden.com/2011/04/bolton-will-play-houston-dynamo-in-friendly-on-july-20-2011/
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aniram
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 11:42 pm |
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Elmanders interview with swedish paper (translated by google)
http://m.expressen.se/1.2406239
If its true no wonder we were rubbish. Surely Coyle must have said more than that at half time he is the manager for petes sake.
LONDON. Outclassed by 5-0. Johan Elmander was really pissed off after the semifinal loss against Stoke. -We should be ashamed, "said national team star to FotbollsExpressen.se.
Bolton had the chance to reach their first FA Cup final since 1958.When collapsed, the team at Wembley.
Bolton lost the semi-final against Stoke in the 5-0, having been let in three goals after just half an hour. Johan Elmander was extremely disappointed after the game.
"Many are hiding"
- It was terrible. We should be ashamed, "said Johan Elmander.
- There are just too many hiding in the day. As simple as they may do 3-0 case is just not done, "said national team star.
What you said at halftime?
- We did not say much. The coach said, "There are ways to lose the FA cupsemifinaler and there are ways to lose the FA cupsemifinaler".
Elmander cracked Bolton fans left the stadium is already in the first half, Johan Elmander was one of the few players in Bolton as the very last struggled to score goals, although the dream of an FA Cup gold was already dead.
This is definitely one of the toughest losses I've experienced, "says Elmander.
By Robert Börjesson
17 april 2011 kl 21:27 April 17, 2011 at 21:27
Last edited on Mon Apr 18th, 2011 11:44 pm by aniram
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le god
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Posted: Mon Apr 18th, 2011 11:42 pm |
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I agree that Knight's distribution is poor, but he's a defender who defends - it should not be up to him to create our chances
no one wants him to create chances just pass the ball to someone on his own team...
Thumping the ball into touch or to their keeper every time you have the ball is an absolute disgrace.
i couldn't care whether he made 10 goal saving tackles he'll probably cause all of the chances with his w*nk football philosophy.
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