| Author | Post |
|---|
Liam
Member
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 08:03 pm |
|
| Thing is, only people still posting all agree Coyle is still going to be in charge for at least another year and no real reason to sack him at this very moment.
____________________
|
Valderee
606 Veteran
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 08:03 pm |
|
| Yep, we need a laugh, the list of Coyle alternatives always makes me laugh......I stil await a credible suggestion.
____________________
There are Cutthroats Crooks and Conmen running this jail
Is there any club left in England
Or any ground left in England
Or any fan left in England
That's not for sale.
|
Liam
Member
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 08:06 pm |
|
Just to check, what position are we right now, points and losses aside, and where are we suppost to be in the eyes of 'lets sack Coyle'?
Are we sacking a manager to finish between 12th and 14th?
____________________
|
le god
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | . |
| Posts: | 10990 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 08:09 pm |
|
Well it's all subjective, if you're waiting for a "credible" manager that you happen to think is good why don't just say one.
And as for what Liam is saying, the thread isn't about "we're sacking Coyle" a list of mangers was presented with a slogan of "would you rather have any of these" and i said i would rather have Bentiez or Billy Davies personally.
thats the start and the end of it, it goes no deeper than that.
|
Liam
Member
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 08:14 pm |
|
Where would Rafa actually get us if for just one second he came and worked to the same budget?
10th at best, relegation a real posibility, 12th-14th likely.
____________________
|
Valderee
606 Veteran
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 08:16 pm |
|
le god wrote:
Well it's all subjective, if you're waiting for a "credible" manager that you happen to think is good why don't just say one.
And as for what Liam is saying, the thread isn't about "we're sacking Coyle" a list of mangers was presented with a slogan of "would you rather have any of these" and i said i would rather have Bentiez or Billy Davies personally.
thats the start and the end of it, it goes no deeper than that.
I agree with that - the thread is just a laugh for tonight for me. I do not have a credible suggestion as an alternative because as I said earlier there isn't one right now. I think we both agree it is too late to sack Coyle this season, and we can't afford it. I think Billy Davies would be out of his depth but that is just my view. I despise Benitez and that is why I don't want or rate him. Fortunately he is out of our league financially, and if he wasn't I might as well suggest Villas-Boas, also way out of our league financially.
____________________
There are Cutthroats Crooks and Conmen running this jail
Is there any club left in England
Or any ground left in England
Or any fan left in England
That's not for sale.
|
le god
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | . |
| Posts: | 10990 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 08:16 pm |
|
(in reply to Liam)
Well i honestly don't know, i just think with a wealth of experience at a very high level he's acquired a good level of tactical knowledge.
All we really need is someone who can organise a team, we've been absolutely shambolic at the back all season, so clearly something has gone awry there hasn't it.Last edited on Tue Apr 10th, 2012 08:17 pm by le god
|
BringBackBurndenPark
Member
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 08:21 pm |
|
Halliwell wrote:
BringBackBurndenPark wrote: Just a quick scan through his early career and he was sacked from osasuna after 1 win in 9 games and Real Valladolid after 2 wins in 23 games. ( just for the "find me a record worse than Coyles ")
He got deportivo Alves relegated but he did get Tenerife promoted.
So you make the facts fit your own arguement rather than the question that was asked, which may I remind you was this
Halliwell wrote:
Well all of their careers are well documented, please find me any one of them with a worse Premier record over 32 games.
Please feel free to try again.
What does it matter what league any bad record comes in? You can only really judge who is a better manager If they had to manage exactly the same club at exactly the same time.
Different clubs have different situations.
You could have your best players injuried in the time of your bad run and have no money to replace them. You could be in a league one year with teams that just beat each other and no one really pulls away or you could have a big section of teams bossing the whole league. You could win 10 games one year and go down but the next year win 10 games and stay up.
Judging how well or bad Kevin Keegan did with newcastle in 2008 or how O Leary did with villa in 2004 or Benitez did with Liverpool in 2010 compared to how well Coyle does with Bolton in 2012 doesn't prove anything.
All these clubs are different and are in different situations.
Yes Coyle has lost more than others but he's also won more than other managers this year.
You go back through these list of managers and tell me how much they had to spend.
____________________
Lack of ambition, lack of money, lack of interest!!!
|
Liam
Member
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 08:22 pm |
|
Le God, credible managers... well, there is Sam.
Or maybe Bobby Di Matteo, Ranieri?, Marcello Beisla, Juan Martinez, Soldati at a push...
We might get the first two or three, but in reality, short of chancing it on a maestro or otherwise going with the old guard prem managers then we might as well stick. I know you aren't arguing the point other than being devils advocate but stop being so good at being the .... well.... devils advocate!
Maybe Ranieri could work like Jol has at Fulham... however they still splashed the cash like £10m for Ruiz etc which we just wont do. Nor should we.
____________________
|
le god
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | . |
| Posts: | 10990 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 08:26 pm |
|
Well we did splash 8 million on Anelka and 8.2 on Elmander.
I like Di Matteo personally i think he had West Brom playing some lovely stuff... but it's all moot really.
All i want to see is a defence thats able to hold it's own for 90 minutes the majority of games.
If you're outdone by skill and class, so be it, but to constantly beat yourselves.. well it's getting a bit frustrating isn't it.
|
Liam
Member
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 08:29 pm |
|
It is.. And it more often appears to be on the players head.. But time and again I've looked at a game over the 90 mins and realised the players they are against are just superior, they're pulling them all ways, twisting an turning, intelligent runs, intelligent way, over the course of a game this gets our players seemingly trying to second guess or gamble just to keep up with the footballing quality of the opponent.
In other words, they look bad over the course of a game because their opponent makes them look bad.
.... but mainly because they are bad.
____________________
|
Halliwell
Guest
| Joined: | |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 08:30 pm |
|
BringBackBurndenPark wrote: Halliwell wrote:
BringBackBurndenPark wrote: Just a quick scan through his early career and he was sacked from osasuna after 1 win in 9 games and Real Valladolid after 2 wins in 23 games. ( just for the "find me a record worse than Coyles ")
He got deportivo Alves relegated but he did get Tenerife promoted.
So you make the facts fit your own arguement rather than the question that was asked, which may I remind you was this
Halliwell wrote:
Well all of their careers are well documented, please find me any one of them with a worse Premier record over 32 games.
Please feel free to try again.
What does it matter what league any bad record comes in? You can only really judge who is a better manager If they had to manage exactly the same club at exactly the same time.
Different clubs have different situations.
You could have your best players injuried in the time of your bad run and have no money to replace them. You could be in a league one year with teams that just beat each other and no one really pulls away or you could have a big section of teams bossing the whole league. You could win 10 games one year and go down but the next year win 10 games and stay up.
Judging how well or bad Kevin Keegan did with newcastle in 2008 or how O Leary did with villa in 2004 or Benitez did with Liverpool in 2010 compared to how well Coyle does with Bolton in 2012 doesn't prove anything.
All these clubs are different and are in different situations.
Yes Coyle has lost more than others but he's also won more than other managers this year.
You go back through these list of managers and tell me how much they had to spend.
So I take it you couldn't find ANYONE with a worse Premier league record over 32 games as Coyle.
If you really think no other manager could have achieved a better record than Coyle over the same period with the same resources then I go back to my original statement - there are non so blind as those that will not see.
|
le god
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 10th, 2005 |
| Location: | . |
| Posts: | 10990 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 08:31 pm |
|
Well i would expect that against Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal... the elites. I wouldn't expect to see it against Fulham, Norwich, West Brom, Villa or anyone of that calibre.
lets face it if we're serious about premier league football we need to be matching teams of that ability, and we haven't been able too.
I'm afraid some of that comes down on the manager.
|
Liam
Member
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 08:36 pm |
|
You look back though at our tenure.
We've had success, Fulham have and seemingly are again having success, Blackburn have had success, yet all have flirted - sometimes dangerously - with relegation. Who's to say in a season or two's time, should we survive it will be ours or Blackburns time again to have success?
We're floating clubs to an extent, we're in the ether of the premier league, there for some time but still not an Everton or Villa.
5 or 10 more years in the same league and we'll be stable like these clubs where a bad season still sees you 9 times out of 10 comfortably safe.
We don't want to become another Charlton or Middlesboro or West Ham and think we should be here by right just yet.
____________________
|
BringBackBurndenPark
Member
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 08:45 pm |
|
Halliwell wrote:
BringBackBurndenPark wrote: Halliwell wrote:
BringBackBurndenPark wrote: Just a quick scan through his early career and he was sacked from osasuna after 1 win in 9 games and Real Valladolid after 2 wins in 23 games. ( just for the "find me a record worse than Coyles ")
He got deportivo Alves relegated but he did get Tenerife promoted.
So you make the facts fit your own arguement rather than the question that was asked, which may I remind you was this
Halliwell wrote:
Well all of their careers are well documented, please find me any one of them with a worse Premier record over 32 games.
Please feel free to try again.
What does it matter what league any bad record comes in? You can only really judge who is a better manager If they had to manage exactly the same club at exactly the same time.
Different clubs have different situations.
You could have your best players injuried in the time of your bad run and have no money to replace them. You could be in a league one year with teams that just beat each other and no one really pulls away or you could have a big section of teams bossing the whole league. You could win 10 games one year and go down but the next year win 10 games and stay up.
Judging how well or bad Kevin Keegan did with newcastle in 2008 or how O Leary did with villa in 2004 or Benitez did with Liverpool in 2010 compared to how well Coyle does with Bolton in 2012 doesn't prove anything.
All these clubs are different and are in different situations.
Yes Coyle has lost more than others but he's also won more than other managers this year.
You go back through these list of managers and tell me how much they had to spend.
So I take it you couldn't find ANYONE with a worse Premier league record over 32 games as Coyle.
If you really think no other manager could have achieved a better record than Coyle over the same period with the same resources then I go back to my original statement - there are non so blind as those that will not see.
I never once said I don't think any of these managers would do better than Coyle.
I simply found a bad record of Benitez whilst I had a quick read of his early career and thought people may like to see it. I thought maybe it's shows managers that have achieved champions league trophies had shit records too at one point.
No offense but I can't be arsed looking at all those managers previous records. I take it you couldn't be arsed looking how much they had all spent in their time.
To add. Coyle has done some daft things that have annoyed me but like others can see It's too late to moan about it now and ask for him to be sacked.
We forget that he is still a relatively inexperienced manager compared to some and I bet he has learnt a lot this season.
We need to back him at this moment!
____________________
Lack of ambition, lack of money, lack of interest!!!
|
Halliwell
Guest
| Joined: | |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 09:15 pm |
|
BringBackBurndenPark wrote: I never once said I don't think any of these managers would do better than Coyle.
I simply found a bad record of Benitez whilst I had a quick read of his early career and thought people may like to see it. I thought maybe it's shows managers that have achieved champions league trophies had shit records too at one point.
No offense but I can't be arsed looking at all those managers previous records. I take it you couldn't be arsed looking how much they had all spent in their time.
To add. Coyle has done some daft things that have annoyed me but like others can see It's too late to moan about it now and ask for him to be sacked.
We forget that he is still a relatively inexperienced manager compared to some and I bet he has learnt a lot this season.
We need to back him at this moment!
Back him?
I back the club not the managers or players who are just transient.
I'll be here long after Coyle has been forgotten about.
Coyle is a dreadful manager and anyone else would have achieved more from the situation and resources that he has had to work in - nothing at all to do with what money he has had to spend, although he's done that fairly direly as well.
What's the point in being next bottom of the Premier at Christmas - spend the January budget on a striker and never play him apart from a few minutes?
Make no mistake we are in this position because of Coyle's managerial inadequacies - not because he's a footballing genius and has us overachieving with our results throughout the season.
I honestly thought Sammy Lee was the worst manager I would ever see at the club, Coyle as proved me wrong.
Does anyone truly believe that Coyle will suddenly turn into a tactical genius next season? If not why on earth would anybody want to keep such a duff manager?
I support Bolton Wanderers but that does not mean that I have gone blind or have had a lobotomy.
Coyle may me be a wonderful man but he is most certainly a crap Premier manager and won't be getting better anytime soon.
|
Liam
Member
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 09:18 pm |
|
| Halliwell, where do you think we realistically should be finishing as a club?
____________________
|
Liam
Member
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 09:20 pm |
|
When was the last time you got a trip to Wembley? Yea we got tonked, but he nearly got us there again this season.
Wembley used to be our holy grail as a Wanderer.
____________________
|
BringBackBurndenPark
Member
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 09:24 pm |
|
If you back Bolton then this is the time to get behind Coyle. Slating him won't do any good.
I was never fully convinced he was a good appointment from the start but he began well and won a lot of us over. What's happening now is what I feared when we pinched him from Burnley.
I agree he's not the best but it's too late to take action now.
Look at Wolves. Micks sacking was bad timing and no one fancied Taking his place.
Sacking Coyle now IMO would be very silly. You have to see that.
____________________
Lack of ambition, lack of money, lack of interest!!!
|
Greeny2
Member
| Joined: | Tue Sep 20th, 2011 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 1759 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 09:47 pm |
|
BringBackBurndenPark wrote:
If you back Bolton then this is the time to get behind Coyle. Slating him won't do any good.
I was never fully convinced he was a good appointment from the start but he began well and won a lot of us over. What's happening now is what I feared when we pinched him from Burnley.
I agree he's not the best but it's too late to take action now.
Look at Wolves. Micks sacking was bad timing and no one fancied Taking his place.
Sacking Coyle now IMO would be very silly. You have to see that.
Can't sack Coyle until the summer at the earliest and then, personally give him to October. Summer appointments rarely work, October / November ones seem to always do better. Perhaps because players / managers have to pull together. That's my opinion anyway. Who to replace him with. Well there a whole host of people that would apply. But I'll garauntee someone on here would say No to every single suggestion. There will never be a universally approved appointment. All you can say is that if you were in charge you would / wouldn't sack Coyle.
|
Liam
Member
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 09:56 pm |
|
Not even Ranieri?
anyhow... Coyle is going nowhere. Nor should he be. If you owned a stake in the club, would you endorse it?
The second part isn't to Greeny in particular but the forum as a whole.Last edited on Tue Apr 10th, 2012 09:56 pm by Liam
____________________
|
Halliwell
Guest
| Joined: | |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 09:59 pm |
|
Where have I asked for him to be sacked?
The time for that was several months ago.
It would have been the decent thing to have resigned though (if he knew the club could not afford to sack him), again sometime back when we could have given someone else the time to steady the club.
Even now it wouldn't be the end of the world if he left, we have Lee who is at least has some tactical nous, which is a damn site more than Coyle ever had.
McCarthy's sacking was very badly handled, I understand that they thought they had Curbishley in the bag and obviously they didn't!
@Liam
I've been to Wembley many times in Cup finals, FA semis, Play-offs and various lower league finals.
Although they may be splendid days out it is the Premier League where the money is.
I dare say the majority of Portsmouth fans would now forgo the glory of their two recent cup runs rather than have a club stony broke and soon to be plummeting into division three with visits to Bury, Sc*nthorpe and Yeovil.
|
Billy Bradshaw
Administrator
| Joined: | Mon Oct 4th, 2004 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 17273 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 10:03 pm |
|
"Decent thing to resign"? I've never heard so much tosh. Put yourself in his shoes....why should he resign? If you were employed in professional sport, would you not think that you can turn around any situation?
Then you go on to endorse Sammy Lee (even as a stop gap)!! Haven't we been there before? It didn't work then and it won't work now. Please don't say it can't be any worse, because it can. Despite our poor season, it's still in our own hands.
____________________
The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark.
|
Billy Bradshaw
Administrator
| Joined: | Mon Oct 4th, 2004 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 17273 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 10:09 pm |
|
| This is a pointless debate anyway. Coyle's here, he's staying and has just had his best month of the season.
____________________
The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark.
|
Halliwell
Guest
| Joined: | |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 10:11 pm |
|
Not after 21 losses out of 32 games, I'm not that self delusional.
As for having our destiny in our own hands, well that only works if we win our remaining six matches, do you honestly think that is going to happen?
|
Liam
Member
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 10:15 pm |
|
But how much can you blame on Coyle, you're again mentioning the debt. It's not down to Coyle, he'd have to be an absolute Maverick to get us prem football and out of debt, this is what the academy is suppost to be about.
If you think it is too late to sack Coyle and too late for him to resign (who in their right mind would?) then what is the point on anything other than getting behind the team? There's nowt wrong in a moan, god, that seems to be a right of a football fan to bemoan their club, but really, what is the point you're looking to prove today? What is it you want?
If you're peeved at the tactics, fine, if you are peeved at the selections, fine, but why are we talking about replacements and what isn't going to be changed?
If is a very big word for two letters, but IF we had LCY and Holden this season I'd say we would be where Norwich are right now all being well, you can't ignore the facts, like we can't ignore the facts and stats, that Coyle is doing his best with what he's got to keep us up and therefore needs our backing. At best we could be 3 points better off, but then Man Yoo could still be in the Champions League and Man Citeh could still be top, Barca would be top of La Liga, managers aren't perfect, if they were they'd be at the best clubs around.
____________________
|
Billy Bradshaw
Administrator
| Joined: | Mon Oct 4th, 2004 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 17273 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 10:18 pm |
|
Halliwell wrote: As for having our destiny in our own hands, well that only works if we win our remaining six matches, do you honestly think that is going to happen?
No.....but neither will the rest. The fact remains that we are not depending on anyone else, if we get the points we need.
Tell me, would you rather be one of the clubs below us right now, even if they are making a better fight of it than us? I wouldn't.
____________________
The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark.
|
trottered
Member
| Joined: | Mon Aug 8th, 2011 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 7 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 10:52 pm |
|
Can't beleive the negativity,we have just been beaten at NUFC and played really well upto conceding the goals.I personally think that we should of defended the Ben Arfa goal a lot better or even fouled him while he was breaking through. Not sporting I know but would you rather have come away with a point that could keep us up ?
Don't forget the unbeleivable bad luck we have had this season. Before a ball was kicked we had the fixture list to contend with as well as Holden being injured and then losing Chung Lee & Mears. Give the guy a break and get behind him and the team.
|
Liam
Member
|
Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2012 11:19 pm |
|
| I'd almost forgot about Mears!
____________________
|
Halliwell
Guest
| Joined: | |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 11th, 2012 12:33 am |
|
Billy Bradshaw wrote: Halliwell wrote: As for having our destiny in our own hands, well that only works if we win our remaining six matches, do you honestly think that is going to happen?
No.....but neither will the rest. The fact remains that we are not depending on anyone else, if we get the points we need.
Tell me, would you rather be one of the clubs below us right now, even if they are making a better fight of it than us? I wouldn't.
Of course if we get the points we are not dependent on anyone else, that can be said of any club though!
We are one point better off than QPR and Wigan, and a game in hand of Blackburn who are also just a point behind us - we though have the poorer Goal Difference - Blackburn would have been ahead of us now but for the late goal by Carroll tonight.
It is a very tight position we find ourselves in and not one that I am confident about.
On paper we have the easier run in but that doesn't account for other teams who have for various reasons taken their foot off the gas, Liverpool for instance played their reserve side tonight because they are saving their players for the FA Cup semi this weekend.
City play QPR on the last day of the season with almost nothing to play for - and QPR may perhaps have Premier survival to fight for, do you think City will be up for it as much as Rangers?
Similarly Chelsea v Blackburn also on the last day of the season - Chelsea also may have nothing to play for by then and perhaps play a weaker team than usual?
Coyle as proved all season long that he can't out think the opposition with his tactics, this may cost us very dearly in the end, very dearly indeed.
We aren't going to win many more games from now until the end of the season and we are depending that two out of Blackburn, Wigan or QPR don't equal what points we get (plus one extra) because if they do, and I think it is highly likely they will, we will be relegated.
@Trottered
Our 'tough' opening fixtures where nearly six months ago, what happened with the run of 'easy' fixtures that came after them then?
No team is reliant on just one or two players 'missing' through injury. Our defeats have come because of terrible team selections and tactics from Coyle more than Holden or Lee being out. How many times did we get battered playing 4-4-2 with the likes of Knight, Robinson, Kevin Davies, etc being in the side, how long did it take for Coyle to realise it didn't work? He even tried it again recently at home to Wigan, how absolutely stupid was that? Will you be as happy with him if Wigan stay up and we go down by the points we lost to them that day?
Twenty-one defeats in a season is horrendous, and we have six more games to go yet and still people cue up to defend Coyle. Are you aware that West Ham, Blackpool and Birmingham, who all got relegated last season, loss less games than we already have!
Coyle as been a disaster and still people can't see it!
|
Current time is 03:36 pm | Page:   1 2 3 4 5 6   |
|
